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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Evolution Trial Arguments End

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 Evolution Trial Arguments End

Story here:

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2571

The Money quote: "Intelligent design theorizes that the universe is so complex that an intelligent being must have a roll in designing it."

My response is that, yes, an Intelligent Being did have a roll in designing the universe. But He used the natural sciences and evolution as the tools to do this. God lives beyond time and space and could easily use evolution in such a way that no one would be able to detect His involvement. Saying that things in nature are too complex to have occured through evolution is akin to saying that you know more than God. The evidence in the fossil record clearly speaks to evolution occuring over many millions of years and this is the way God creats. God speaks through rocks, as well as through preachers and the Bible!

Bubbaguy

PS. But this doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the good work done by preachers or don't believe the profound testimony to the works and love of God presented in the Bible.


 2005/11/8 14:54
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re: Evolution Trial Arguments End

and round we go again hey Bub?

Quote:
God lives beyond time and space and could easily use evolution in such a way that no one would be able to detect His involvement.



the question is not what God could have done, but what has He said He's done (in His Word)?

Could you supply a few verses of Scripture to support your belief that God used evolution, over millions of years?

mat


_________________
matt

 2005/11/8 15:01Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re: Evolution Trial Arguments End

Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/11/8 15:04Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

He has no scripture other than saying the Genesis is symbolic. If Genesis is symbolic so is Christ. We know that Christ is not symbolic. He was a real man who walked the earth.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/11/8 15:06Profile









 Re:

PreachParsly,

From the very beginning, the Bible has used the metaphor of light to describe the nature and substance of God and His word. It is full of such metaphors and to take these things literally is to place God's word in bondage.

"To you, a thousand years are a single day" (Ps.90:4).

"...with the Lord, 'a day' can mean a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day." (2 Peter 3:8).

Clearly the Bible is saying that God doesn't operate from within our time constraints and that there is representational language throughout. Why then does Genesis have to be interpreted literally? Seems to contradict the rest of the Bible.

Bubbaguy

 2005/11/8 15:47
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

How do you metaphorize Genesis? What does each day represent? Is the order of what was created correct, reguardless of time?


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/11/8 16:06Profile









 Re:

Josh,

A couple of years ago I presented info on this, but it looks like it is not up anymore. I don't have my research handy today to repost, but I'll give you one analogy of correspondence between Genesis and evolution.

Both stories tell about three original brothers. In Genesis it is Cain, Abel and Seth. Evolution scientist tell of three closely related protohuman groups: Australeopithicine Afarensis, Robustus and Neanderthals. In Genesis Cain (AA) kills Abel (R) and then later Seth comes along to replace Abel.

In evolution theory the Robustus branch dies out; more specifically they were hunted to extinction and eaten by the hunting tools welding Australeopithicine Afarensis. Then later the Neandertals break off from AAs and migrate north. After that, they either die out or they are genetically assimilated into the rest of humanity.

This is one of many analogies that exist between the Genesis story and the story of evolution. I'll bring in some more tomorrow.

Bubbaguy

 2005/11/8 16:44
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re:

2 Peter 3:7-9 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This passage has NOTHING to do with creation but is concerned with God's judgement on the wicked, it merely demonstrates that He is outside of time but not that He cannot convey what He means to us, Ex 20:11 is pretty obvious!

also look at Luke 3 verse 23 till the end of the chapter please tell us when it becomes metaphor.

Read Romans 5:12,14,17 Paul obviously believed in an literal Adam also 1 Cor 15:22,

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, [b]let God be true, but every man a liar;[/b] as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

who are you trusting believeing in evolution?

matt


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matt

 2005/11/8 17:13Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Honestly I do not know what the big deal was about this court case. I.D. is not young earth creation science or biblical creationism. In actuary terms there should be no reason that evolutionists should object to the inclusion of Intelligent Design since both theories adhere to the same basic idea of gradual increasing biological diversity over billions of years. The main difference is that I.D. allows for a theistic cause...a theistic evolution.

I.D. is simply the result of some theorists who were smart enough to admit that science can't measure or see everything...just some energy and matter. Apparently this isn't good enough for the evolutionists who insist that the universe is nothing but energy and matter. Evolutionists hold out for a godless universe even while there are monumental gaps in their naturalistic explanations for even the first living cell.

The philosophical commitment to the irrelevancy of God is the only feature that ultimately distinguishes Evolution from Intelligent Design.

MC





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Mike Compton

 2005/11/8 18:17Profile
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

This article has probably been buried for a while, but I happened across it, and thought a point should be made.

I am a strict creaionist. What the Bible says is what happened. That's all there is to it. Now, I'm not a scholar, especially in this area, but as I see it, I don't need to be.

Why? Because it's what God said.

We have an established Canon of scripture, compiled by men, but in a way, and using a process, so that we would have the truth. That's what we call our Bible.

The problem that I have, is when people try to make the strict Word of God fit their theinking.

I suppose that if I tried really hard, and spent the time, I could show you how all of the sin that the Bible shows us is really derived of fig trees, and that if we just burned all of the fig trees in the world, we would be without sin. Now, you would think I was crazy, and rightfully so. Why? Becuase that's not what God said! It's an idea that I came up with, and looked for ways to make it right, twisting scripture to do so.

Bubbaguy, you have some very interesting ideas, but I don't agree with you. For the simple reason stated above, that when we start to make scripture fit our ideas, we get into trouble.

Now, this problem goes so far beyond evolution. How do you get a church that teaches that homosexuality is not sinful? By claiming that we're all sinners, and therefore, it's just another sin, no worse, and therefore acceptable? That's exactly it! THEREFORE- we interpret scripture to mean what we want it to!

Now, not to disrespect you, bubbaguy. You sound like you've spent quite a bit of time studying this. But don't let your doctrine be shaped by what your thinking. Rather, let your doctrine shape your thinkig.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/11/9 2:04Profile





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