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Discussion Forum : General Topics : MMR Vacine

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Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 MMR Vacine

Does anyone have any information regarding the MMR vacine and / or the single dose alternatives?

I've looked on the web but there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

My son is 11 months old and will need to be vaccinated in a couple of months time.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2005/11/7 13:35Profile









 Re: MMR Vacine


Hi Nasher,

What is the Lord directing you to do on this matter?

 2005/11/9 10:28
shibu
Member



Joined: 2003/9/13
Posts: 230
Goa, India

 Re:

Hi Nasher,
According to immunization schedule, MMR is a single dose, should be given between the age of 15 - 18 months.

shibu


_________________
Shibu Clement

 2005/11/9 11:17Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7421
Mississippi

 Re: MMR Vacine

I am speaking as a mom who had five children and now eight grands. When our children were small I was very deligent in making sure their shots were given - on time - until the fifth child...I got lazy, or it did not seem as important. This son did not take his until he was ready for school. No harm has befallen any of our children.

Having said all this, I am also reading reports of possible side effects which could be disastrous to the child. The situation is almost like a 'pick and choose what you want to believe' thing. If I would be in your shoes and experience a reluctance to have the immunization done, I would error on the side of caution rather then go ahead...perhaps wait until the child is a little older before it is administered to them. Doing so will increase the chances of the child getting these diseases.
It is your decision. Absolute answers are hard to come by, I am afraid.

BTW, after we were married my DH had the measles and later I got the mumps! And child number 5 had the chicken pox four times! And he is none the worse for it...it was just annoying.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2005/11/9 20:42Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

I'm asking this question because of the talk of the possible "link" between the mmr vaccine and Autism.

Here is how I see it (I may be wrong), and I will put in my own comments in brackets:


[u]The mmr vaccine was created for the following reasons:[/u]

1. It is only one injection instead of 3, making only one set of "after effects", overall making it less "unpleasant" for the child.
(The number of injections will certainly make it less unpleasant but the after effects could be worse with all three vaccines in 1 dose as the child's body will have to create anti-bodies for all 3 vaccines at once - this potential "overload" has been "linked" to causing Autism.)

2. If the injections are given separately then there will be a gap of 6 weeks between each one, therefore a child could contract measles etc. within these times.
(No argument here, this is one of my concerns of having separate vaccines)

3. It is "cheaper" to have all 3 vaccines in 1 dose.
(Although this may not be an official reason, I would say it was a "real" reason.


[u]Arguments against single mmr vaccines (apart from my no.2 above)[/u]

1. The vaccines have not passed stringent UK standards.
(This is because there is no longer a UK standard since 1999 when single mmr vaccines were "stopped", however the "equivalent" standard has been passed in the vaccine's country of origin [e.g. France or Switzerland], however this is still a concern of mine)

2. The vaccines are administered by non-NHS staff and therefore may have not passed safety standards etc.
(This is rich coming from the NHS! I know a friend of mine who took their child in for an injection [I don't know what kind] in an NHS hospital - the nurse [who was a "junior" they think], dropped the needle and it landed in [yes, in] the mother's leg! She then was going to inject the child with it! Before she could, the "senior" nurse shouted "what are you doing!" and another needle was used. [btw I have no grudge against the NHS ;-) ]

3. A quote from the BUPA website:
If a child has autism, parents typically start to notice the signs when their child is one to two years. As the MMR injection is given at around 13 months of age, it is easy to understand why some people think they may be linked.
(This is a good point)


[u]Here is my dilemma:[/u]

1. If I choose the mmr vaccine and child develops Autism, I will never forgive myself.

2. If I choose single vaccines and my child catches Measles etc. in-between injections and is permanently harmed, I will never forgive myself.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2005/11/10 9:52Profile









 Re: MMR Vaccine

Hi Nasher,

Have you looked up the original research?

Have you looked at the size of the original cohort?

Have you looked at the most recent comments by the Dr who published the first research?

Have you compared the cohort in the original research with subsequent studies and considered the credentials of subsequent researchers?

Have you looked at WHO's (World Health Organisation) advice?

Have you considered the implications of allowing your son to contribute to the dwindling pool of 'herd' immunity?

Do you know what the current level of herd immunity is in your locality? (You should be able to find that out by ringing your local Notifying Medical Officer's department (local DoH). While you're there, ask them which of measles, mumps and rubella they are expecting to rise in incidence this winter and then do your research into the reasons immunisation is offered against these three diseases. Or maybe you've done this already. Whatever, think through the implications of being the family who passes any of these diseases to your local church, nursery, neighbours and family members.)

Is there any history of autism or dyslexic spectrum difficulty on either side of your son's family? (No need to post the answer, but this is a question you may wish to answer by a proper inquisition of family members, rather than guesswork.)

 2005/11/11 9:25
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Hi Dorcas, in short, no.

The thing is, depending on who's doing the research this can affect on the outcome.

Quote:
Have you considered the implications of allowing your son to contribute to the dwindling pool of 'herd' immunity?


What does this mean?

Quote:
Is there any history of autism or dyslexic spectrum difficulty on either side of your son's family?


None, but what difference does that make?


_________________
Mark Nash

 2005/11/11 9:57Profile
ruhappy
Member



Joined: 2005/3/9
Posts: 14


 Re:

my children have not had any shots.
i never had any either.
you have to sign a release of liability before the mmr i think.

 2005/11/11 10:51Profile









 Re: MMR vaccine

Hi Nasher,

Be very clear here, [i][b]you[/b][/i] have to [u]understand[/u] the information before [b][i]having[/b][/i] the information is worth anything at all. No-one can make this decision for you; that's why I gave you all that homework! What I've suggested to find out, is neither difficult nor will what you find, be beyond your interpretation. Or, you can post it in this thread and let brethren with a better grasp of medical research techniques and statistics, interpret the broad meaning for you.

Alternatively, you could spend as long as it takes asking the Lord whether to let your son have the MMR, (waiting until you have the answer, of course) and then, just do it, [i]trusting the outcome[/i] [b][u]to the Lord[/u][/b].

Quote:
The thing is, depending on who's doing the research this can affect on the outcome.

That is why I wanted you to search out the credentials of the person who did the original research, so you can find out if it meets the stringent standards required generally...? The same goes for researchers in other countries who came to different conclusions.

Somewhere along the line, this question has got to leave you better educated.... and I mean that in the best way. Many of us have already been through this hoop (a few times) but, we cannot take your parental responsibilities for you. You have to grow through this with your little boy. This is only one of many similar decisions you will have to make - to say nothing of the MMR booster before school.

Quote:
Have you considered the implications of allowing your son to contribute to the dwindling pool of 'herd' immunity?

What does this mean?

'Herd' immunity, is what Public Health call the cumulative effect of successfully vaccinating the vast majority of people in a certain risk group - in the case of your son, small children. Ideally, they are looking for above 90%. It varies slightly for different illnesses and some viruses have a number of strains. For instance, there are over 80 strains of whooping cough (also called 'pertussis'), which circulate the world in a four year cycle of being particularly nasty.

Therefore, if herd immunity begins to dip down below 90%, more and more of the children who have not been vaccinated, will pick up something. Then, once they've been ill with one thing, they are weaker, so they may be more vulnerable to another infection before they have fully regained their strength. (With measles (as you probably know), middle ear infections are a common secondary complication while the measles is still in progress.)

While you only have one child, this is not a disaster, but, if you have more than one and the well one is not allowed to mix with other children until it is clear he or she is or is not going to pick up the infectious disease, then you may be talking about keeping them off school for 2 weeks or more - when they are still WELL. (Quarantine) If they become ill (which would then be considered a happy occasion because it brings the uncertainty to an end) everyone knows where they are in the scheme of things.

Then there is a strange condition known as 'immune carrier' which means that a person who is not ill with an illness can still pass it on to someone who is [u]not immune[/u]. Mumps can be passed this way, I believe.

Lastly, the reason rubella is so disliked by professionals, (seeing it is a relatively innoccuous condition for the person who has it), is that anyone pregnant and in contact with it during the first 3 months (the time you're not always sure you're pregnant - or for that matter, the other young mothers you know), is at risk of bearing a child with hearing and seeing difficulties such as deafness and blindness (and both of those together).

Quote:
Is there any history of autism or dyslexic spectrum difficulty on either side of your son's family?

None, but what difference does that make?

There is a genetic factor, so, if there was already a risk, you might be able to convince yourself that it could be worsened - that is, if you believe the original research.

NB I am not saying there are no risks to vaccinations but, MMR has been considerably improved since it was introduced, and children who are in good health should be able to cope with it. However, for the people who have any sort of reaction, I agree, it is a personal disaster for everyone who is affected. But, you do [u]need[/u] to [b][i]understand[/i][/b] the information which is available - unless you let the Lord be your Guide without the 'information'.


19.38h Capitals removed at Nasher's instigation.

 2005/11/11 13:14
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Dorcas, please don't use block capitals any more, it means that you are shouting and I don't want to discuss anything with anyone who is shouting.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2005/11/11 13:48Profile





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