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Discussion Forum : General Topics : if you hate someone then its murder?

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luckyd
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Joined: 2005/6/1
Posts: 71
tx

 if you hate someone then its murder?

how can i explain to someone that just by hating someone then they have commited murder, because jesus doesnt say plainly if u hate somone ur a murder, i know he explains it in a different way but i cant see where hes saying its murder.so how can i show someone that jesus sees it as murder.


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jesse

 2005/11/4 23:26Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re: if you hate someone then its murder?

That is definite spiritual truth but to blurt out rashly: "if you hate someone then its murder?" can bring more offense then do good. I do think you can lead into it definetly, there are enough obvious sins for people to know that they are sinners and we don't have to convince them just because they hated someone once and stole a choclate bar when they were a kid makes then sinful and thereby they are condemed to hell for eternity.

There is a better sense that the utter rebellion of peoples hearts against God and His Lordship in their lifes, therefore making themselves gods is the problem at hand. And definetly all sin roots out of this pride that is of the mentality "first not last" but Jesus did say the "last shall be first and the first shall be last" .

All sin is utterly sinful and for people to see that they need to see the Holiness and awesome majesty of God. I think a good scripture to look at is the story of cain and abel and compare that with 1 John. I am curious to see what comes from this.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/11/4 23:31Profile
habakkuk3
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Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re: Walk in the Spirit!

I agree with Brother Greg.

There is a way to confront others but it has to be a work of the Spirit. I recently had a terrible tragedy in my family (i.e. a suicide) and the Holy Spirit had me confront some of my family members.

I was praying and weeping with them and then the Lord would have me confront them in some particular way. It's definitely not something I wanted to do in the flesh.

There's a huge difference between confronting someone in the flesh versus the spirit. It just hard for me to articulate adequately in one of these little boxes.

If it's truly a word of the Lord, then the person will either have to repent or they will shun me. If it's a work of the flesh, then they will simply be angry with me and the Holy Spirit will show me that my words fell to the ground.

I could provide a scriptural basis for this but this is it in a nutshell. Walk in the Spirit and simply do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do.


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Ed Pugh

 2005/11/5 8:56Profile
jeremyhulsey
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Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

I'm beginning to wonder if, in all our evangelistic zeal to convert sinners, we've misused the Law. By this I mean that I wonder if the Law isn't just given to point out men's sin, but to give us a picture of the majesty and purity of God by which all men are convicted of their sin.

Just showing a person that they've broken the Ten Commandments doesn't even require a saved person to communicate it--I've seen this in actuality unfortunately. All you need is a little mislead zeal and a formula. What I'm getting at is that anyone can show others the Law of God, but only those who are God's can show them the God of the Law.

I see three camps now at work. There's the four spiritual laws camp, the Romans road camp, and now the Ten Commandments Camp. Each successive group has complained that the other has put God in a box by offering a simple formula, but each group following the other has only used a bigger box.

I know I'm stepping out on a limb on this, but I say all this in love because I think it's good that we consider our ways to make sure our works are done in God.

In Christ
Jeremy Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/11/5 10:19Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2717
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: if you hate someone then its murder?

Excellent replies! It is so easy to just fall into one of those boxes that Hulsey mentioned and rely on a method when speaking with the lost instead of relying on a Person, the Holy Spirit. I'm guilty of using methods myself, the Lord is showing me a better way.

However, that's not to say that the truths that those methods are based upon are not good and useful or that we shouldn't be armed with a knowledge of the truth as found in Scripture.

The case of hatred being equated with murder is an excellent way to point out that the problem of sin as a fundamental relationship-it isn't wrong [i]doing[/i], but wrong [i]being[/i], it is deliberate and determined independence from God. When we confront people with this heredity of sin then the gospel has the sting it is supposed to have in that the fact that man cannot redeem himself is revealed. In that light it can be understood that...He made Him who knew no sin [b]to be sin[/b] for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Jesus took on the heredity of sin that no man can ever touch.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/11/5 12:09Profile
Billy7
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Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 61


 Re:

Quote:

Hulsey wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if, in all our evangelistic zeal to convert sinners, we've misused the Law. By this I mean that I wonder if the Law isn't just given to point out men's sin, but to give us a picture of the majesty and purity of God by which all men are convicted of their sin.

Just showing a person that they've broken the Ten Commandments doesn't even require a saved person to communicate it--I've seen this in actuality unfortunately. All you need is a little mislead zeal and a formula. What I'm getting at is that anyone can show others the Law of God, but only those who are God's can show them the God of the Law.

I see three camps now at work. There's the four spiritual laws camp, the Romans road camp, and now the Ten Commandments Camp. Each successive group has complained that the other has put God in a box by offering a simple formula, but each group following the other has only used a bigger box.

I know I'm stepping out on a limb on this, but I say all this in love because I think it's good that we consider our ways to make sure our works are done in God.

In Christ
Jeremy Hulsey



This is exactly the point that I was trying to make a week or so ago when I started the thread on Ray Comfort's method of using the Ten Commandments. If there's one thing I've learned in the last twenty-four years of trying to lead sinners to Christ, it's that evangelism cannot be reduced to a formula. Conversion is truly the work of the Holy Spirit. Each individual is different and only the Holy Spirit can give the wisdom needed to bring the breakthrough.

"He that wins souls is wise" (Prov. 11:30).


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Billy Evans

 2005/11/5 18:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If there's one thing I've learned in the last twenty-four years of trying to lead sinners to Christ, it's that evangelism cannot be reduced to a formula



I agree. We must use biblical principles, such as Law before grace, but not any sort of set pattern. Principles are wise and biblical, patterns cann't be used with winning souls, though they may work with other things.

 2005/11/5 19:53
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Echo's

Great replies indeed!

Quote:
The case of hatred being equated with murder is an excellent way to point out that the problem of sin as a fundamental relationship-[b][i]it isn't wrong doing, but wrong being[/i][/b], it is deliberate and determined independence from God.



After that is addressed the methods really don't matter much or vise versa.
Quote:
What I'm getting at is that anyone can show others the Law of God, but only those who are God's can show them the God of the Law. I know I'm stepping out on a limb on this, but I say all this in love because I think it's good that we consider our ways to make sure our works are done in God.

Don't think you are out on a limb at all Jeremy, this seems to have a nice progression to it following through to...
Quote:
There is a way to confront others but it has to be a work of the Spirit. I recently had a terrible tragedy in my family (i.e. a suicide) and the Holy Spirit had me confront some of my family members.


Brother that's tragic, my prayers are with you and your family.
Quote:
I was praying and weeping with them and then the Lord would have me confront them in some particular way. It's definitely not something I wanted to do in the flesh.

Precisely... and how that carries through every waking moment, even the opposite when the flesh is ready and willing for a 'confrontation' if I could put it that way and the Lord would have you silent, unoffended, humbled.. It still comes right back to;
Quote:
Walk in the Spirit and simply do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do.

Quote:
There's a huge difference between confronting someone in the flesh versus the spirit. It just hard for me to articulate adequately in one of these little boxes.


Articulated very well.


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Mike Balog

 2005/11/5 20:02Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

When I preach that hate is murder, I always bring out that God sees our heart. I use the same principle when saying lust is adultery. You are coveting to kill someone or do them harm. Or in adultery you are coveting to have sex with them.

Thou shalt not covet (evil) is the essence of both of them.

But of course I always bring out the obvious sins too. Lying, stealing, ect.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/11/7 8:47Profile





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