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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Would Jesus mind us using apple cider for communion?

It seems like Jesus used the elements of a common meal to symbolize something spiritual. Jesus used what grew in the area. Around where I live apples grow in abundance, and tons of apples are going waste - left on the ground. There are so many. Shouldn't we here use the fruit of our land - like apples for communion?
Diane


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Diane

 2005/10/29 8:53Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re: Would Jesus mind us using apple cider for communion?

Hi roadsign...!

Quote:
It seems like Jesus used the elements of a common meal to symbolize something spiritual. Jesus used what grew in the area.

I suppose this is the mistake -- it was not a [u]common[/u] meal. The Lord's supper was the fulfillment of a particular Jewish feast, [i]The Feast of Unleavened Bread[/i] during the celebration of [i]Passover[/i]. There was alot of important symbolism during this feast -- sort of a type and shadow of what was actually fulfilled by the Lord.

If you ever have the opportunity, I suggest that you attend a [i]Passover Seder[/i] (including a Messianic Passover Seder) in your community. It reveals alot about the meaning of the "[i]Lord's Supper[/i]" that is often misunderstood or not comprehended by many believers. There are certain guidelines that must be followed during the meal. It seems that most of this is overlooked by modern churches. But the sacrifice of Christ's death seems to be understood with greater clarity by Christians who attend such dinners.

The [i]fruit of the vine[/i] as used in the dinner (both historically by jews, and by Christ) is central to the story of Christ's sacrifice. There are also prescriptions for using [i]unleavened bread[/i] rather than bread containing yeast.

In the past, as a young believer, I would often take [i]communion[/i] alone -- sometimes even using crackers and grape soda pop. I imagine that the Lord smiled upon me because of my desire to celebrate without the "official" meal prep. Once I understood the importance of the [i]Feast of Unleavened Bread[/i] and the [i]Passover[/i], I have tried my best to celebrate and fellowship with the Lord's death with greater understanding. But I do agree that many churches have often turned the act into a religious sacriment lacking proper understanding.

If you do a Google search, you are sure to find many articles about this. I hope it helps!

:-)


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Christopher

 2005/10/29 9:45Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Would Jesus mind us using apple cider for communion?

Have you asked Him? :-)


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D.Miller

 2005/10/29 11:59Profile
Nellie
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Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re: Would Jesus mind us using apple cider for communion?

Diane,
I don't think He would mind, as long as we do it, as unto Him.
We are His Children, and He delights in us, and rejoices over us with singing.

I have often thought about doing Communion alone.
I would most likely use grape juice, but would also use Apple Cider if I had any.
God's Blessings to you.

I enjoy your posts.
Nellie :-)

 2005/10/29 12:21Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: what's important?

I have to admit that the thread topic is not really an issue with me. I guess I’m not really asking this question as such, as much as just looking at the ritual of communion/Eucharist itself. It is practiced by all denominations that come under the umbrella of “Christian” It is considered very sacred by all (more or less). There have been plenty squabbles around this ritual – like people refusing to take communion because someone else in their congregation is “not right with God” and thus they can’t “fellowship” properly. ( I don’t see that instruction anywhere in Scripture)

I wondered if someone was going to set me straight by bringing up the issues raised in 1 Corinthians 11 like division, indulgence, lost focus, unworthy manner, and those who were sick and had “fallen asleep. Clearly Paul was concerned about spiritual issues and sins of the heart. I suspect even today, God would be more concerned about our spiritual condition: Do we really know Christ? Have we really entered his rest? Are we living in the New Covenant Promises or just giving intellectual assent to them? If we are still plagued with worry, fears, guilt, and unbelief, then I’d say that the symbols aren’t going to do much good. We need to experience the real thing. We need to constantly remember what Christ has done for us by setting us free, because we are so prone to wander away from that promise, and find our own methods of appeasing our guilt.

Keeping communion connected with the Passover is probably right – only if we do that, then we should also have it once a year – like Maundy Thursday. I have to ask, would yearly observance harm anyone’s relationship with God? And, conversely, is it beneficial to observe communion more frequently, like weekly?

Perhaps we would remember better by reading the word, letting God examine us, being in tune to the Spirit… etc. . Generally speaking, I don’t see communion serving its intended purpose, and it seems to have become a dead ritual for the most part. So then, does it really matter what kind of juice we serve?
Diane



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Diane

 2005/10/29 20:37Profile
jimbob
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Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

I vote for beer and pretzels. (I'm KIDDING! Stop throwing the stones!)

Diane, you do bring up some very good points. By some of your words (Eucharist, Maundy Thursday) am I to gather that you have some experience with liturgy?

It's probably safe to say that the early Church celebrated communion every time they met, I would suppose at the end of what I would describe as a "pot luck" dinner.

As far as connecting the Churches' sacraments to the Jewish festival's, I can't see going very far with that, in light of Pauls letter to the Galatians. (Although there are correlations that can be drawn.)

Ron B, if you're out there share with us some of your wisdom on the subject!

 2005/10/30 0:36Profile
groh_frog
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Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

You're right. It can be a dead ritual, especially when we change what it's really about.

Now, I know that most churches take communion on the first Sunday of the month, and from my understanding, it's mostly because of tradition that this timetable is set.

But I've known families that look at "whenever you do this, do so in rememberance of me" to mean that whenever we partake of a meal, not just at the feast of unleavened bread, we should do it as a communion.

What do you guys think of this? I myself particularily like gathering friends and family with a purpose. And praying and remembering Christ with every meal is a pretty awesome purpose. Just curious if anyone knows more of the details on why it is a once a month ritual, vs. an everyday one, or an annual one.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/10/30 0:39Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
I know that most churches take communion on the first Sunday of the month,


I suspect that you mean, "Most evangelical churches"
The Chatholics, Anglicans, Bretheren, Lutherans, and maybe the Orthodox, I'm not sure... do it weekly,
Presbyterians: some quarterly, some bi-monthly ....
Jehovah Witness: annually (only for those who are "born again")
Mormons: ?
I don't know about a lot of the others.
All I know that it is a very important ritual to all all Christian churches, and the frequency has nothing to do with how well they truly understand the teachings of Christ. There is always a certain measure of control on who is eligable.
Diane


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Diane

 2005/10/30 8:36Profile
groh_frog
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Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

Just a question a little off topic, but do you consider Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons christians, roadsign?

Grace and Peace...

 2005/10/30 8:50Profile









 Re: Would Jesus mind us using apple cider for communion?

Be bold and use wine, it's just a sip, it won't make you drunk but it will do your heart a bit of good. But if you were a drunk before you came to the LORD, use the apple cider.

Most churches believe that the wine that Jesus drank in His day was grape juice. I've drank grape juice, and I have drunk wine, wine makes the heart merry, not grape juice. In fact if you drink to much grape juice you'll be sitting in the watercloset until you've have been purged.

The reason why people can't believe that Jesus drank wine is that wine is taboo on the list of do's and dont's in the church and to think our Saviour who delivered us from alcohol would be drinking it Himself is unthinkable. But if you read the word more carefully, did it ever say that He got drunk on what He drank?

Jesus was accused of being a "wine bibber", the Pharisees drank wine so they weren't pointing the finger about the wine drinking, but rather Jesus seem to be often seen at the local bar or a house party, after all that was His purpose in coming "to visit the oppressed to set the captive free", your not going to find them in the local churches, but in places that most Churches wouldn't dare send their people. They'd rather send them to the jungles of Africa, or China, but don't go to the bar and talk about Jesus. "Think of our image, it's just doesn't look good" When you think about Jesus image to the sanhedrin, it didn't look good either.

So......how I got over into this I'll never know!

You see in order for wineskins to burst, there must be fermentation of the yeast that is in the skin of the grape. The grape juice alone doesn't ferment, it needs other components in order for it to ferment properly. Jesus talks about putting new wine into new wineskins. Old wineskins have already been used, stretched and worn out it's usefullness. New wineskins were needed in order to retain the new wine, of course we know Jesus was talking about Covenants (Law vs.Grace)

A glass of wine will make you mellow, but not drunk, but if you drink more then a glass, then your looking for trouble.

Paul even said to do all things in moderation.

And for those believers who do drink wine in moderation, keep it to yourself and God, I don't need to know about it and neither does the brother who has a weaker conscience.

Karl

 2005/10/30 12:58





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