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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : RICK WARREN'S YOUTH PASTOR ASSOCIATED WITH EASTERN MEDITATIVE PRACTICES

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ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 What are the real issues

Quote:

groh_frog wrote:
Now, there's a big difference between meditating: contemplating god's Law day and night, and meditating: the eastern philosophy of it.

Great tell me about it? I was not aware that meditating had anything to do with philosophy in so far as it is a vehicle to 'hear the spirit within'.
Quote:
I don't believe meditation to be something that we should go near, simply if for no other reason than the fact that it doesn't come from God.

Well that premise is obviously based upon your initial statement, so talk to me.
Quote:
...as harmless as they might seem or sound, can be a gateway or an invitation for things we shouldn't mess with.

Do you care or anyone care to try and unpack what the problem is.

Just to settle this line of thinking down, the thing that sets christians apart from the rest of the lot, is not the doing or not doing of certain things, but their love for one another and God.

Love God and do as you please. St Augustine paraphrased


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/10/29 5:49Profile
Warrior4Jah
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Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Yes, I'm also pretty curious about what they have to say about this and what Rick Warrens stand is on this.


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/10/31 7:28Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Yoga might be a problem, but "contemplative prayer" as normally understood in the context of spiritual formation has hardly anything to do with eastern meditative practices.

In absence of clear and unambiguous references to the material in question, it is really hard to comment.


_________________
Sam

 2005/11/2 10:42Profile
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re: RICK WARREN'S YOUTH PASTOR ASSOCIATED WITH EASTERN MEDITATIVE PRACTICES

Well I don't think that contemplative prayer is completely eastern either but the fact remains that I wouldn't be surprised if some eastern thought and religion is taught. I have read many of Rick's sermons and if there is a posterboy for the -- "Gospel for Me" message it is him and that kind of message is going ot be very introspective. I think Keith Green would probably hand him both his tracts on what's wrong with the gospel and smile. ;-) The fact remains that Rick Warren's gospel allows for a little ecclecticism in it and it drives me nuts.

I really can't stand the whole purpose driven things becasue it seems to me that if one is 'born again' the fact that there is a purpsoe to life would be obvious.

Blessings.


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Ed Raby

 2005/11/2 11:47Profile
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

Well, maybe back to the basics of the question. What exactly is he teaching in reference to eastern meditative practices?

I agree, that contemplative prayer isn't bad- it's what prayer's all about. Listen to Zac Poonen's "Learning the Fear of God", and he'll talk a bit about it.

What I understand eastern meditation to be, is a process in which you clear your mind, and think of nothing. You shut off conscious thought, and that brings you closer to an "enlightened self". It's refering to the idea that we are "nothing and everything", like Buddhism teaches.

Now, listening for God's voice while we pray is what prayer's all about. It's not much of a conversation if it all goes one way.

But again, what exactly is he teaching?

Grace and Peace...

 2005/11/2 11:53Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

[b]Sir_Edward[/b],

Just because you can't stand Warren's teachings does not mean every single allegation is true.

[b]groh_frog[/b]'s question is valid:
What exactly did they teach about Eastern meditative practices? Any quotes?

Sam


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Sam

 2005/11/2 12:15Profile
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re:

Agent,
First of all I didn't say it was necessarily true, I simply said I wouldn't be surprised.

Rick Warren has compromised a lot of what Christ said about the gospel in his preaching for the sake being -- 'seeker sensitive'. When you make such compromises it shouldn't be surprising that you will make others. Everything is done for acceptance not for truth. His main influences seems to be Robert Schuller and his gospel that sells. If this is the case we certainly do not want to offend someone that has an eastern view of religion now do we?

http://www.myfortress.org/RickWarren.html is a good link. Plus there are many more. I particularly like this part:

Quote:
In an interview with Time Magazine March 29, 2004, Rick has this to say, "I'm translating the truth into 21st century language, and evidently a lot of people are listening." He's convinced that the nation is on the verge of a spiritual awakening, as people seek fulfillment they don't get in fast-track jobs and can't buy with gold cards. "The culture is asking, 'How do I fill this hole in my heart?'" he says. "I think religion has the answer."

Religion has the answer? Is that what the Bible teaches? I thought Jesus is the answer? I thought Jesus is the only way to heaven? Religion is in fact the Devil's greatest tool! There are billions of people in "religion" on their way to hell thinking everything is ok! How could "America's most influential" preacher deny Jesus to Time Magazine and their millions of readers? Would it offend unchurched Harry and Mary to say that Jesus is the answer and that He is the, "Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6)?"

In an article from the USA today Rick Warren claims that Mormonism is just another Christian denomination rather than a false religion: "Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women. I'm not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won't try to change other denominations."

Rick Warren says, "You must decide who you're trying to reach, identify their preferred style of music and then stick with it." For example the Modesto Bee reports: "Warren's emphasis on approachable Christianity is reflected at Saddleback, where worshippers can choose from nearly two dozen services that feature different styles of live music, from heavy metal to reggae to hula."

Listen to the words of Charles Spurgeon regarding this method of reaching unbelievers: "Dear friends, we know that souls are not won by music, if they were it would be time for preachers to give way to opera singers."



I don't know if the current allegation is true, but I wouldn't be surprised given all the other things Rick has accepted for the sake of the 'gospel'.

Sorry, but compared to some of the other preachers here at this site Rick is a pitiful excuse for a preacher.

Blessings.


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Ed Raby

 2005/11/2 13:15Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

[b]Sir_Edward[/b],

I was not even defending Warren. I was merely asking for the exact quotes and their respective contexts for the allegations concerning Eastern meditative practices and Warren's youth pastor.

Thus far I have seen none of that in this thread.


_________________
Sam

 2005/11/2 16:45Profile
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re: RICK WARREN'S YOUTH PASTOR ASSOCIATED WITH EASTERN MEDITATIVE PRACTICES

Agent,
I understand you were not defending him but I think the answer is there because the issue seems to be clear to the parents.
Here is the article in total:
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/292005a.asp

Now if I am looking at it then the thing that probably stands out is the Yoga thing. I think that it is well documented that yoga is a door to easterm mysticism:

Quote:
Yoga: This is one of the six major Hindu philosophical systems to be followed in order to obtain union (yoga) with the Ultimate, the Great All-pervading Soul. Self-realization Fellowship advocates practice of disciplined Kriya Yoga as the path to realization of the good within, the true self.



http://wri.leaderu.com/wri-table1/mysticism.html is where I got it from.

I think the very fact that some of these things are practiced would cause anyone concern.

Blessings.


_________________
Ed Raby

 2005/11/2 17:10Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

[b]Sir_Edward[/b],

Your first link is not helpful because all the allegations are made by critics without reference. They are all claims made by a Cathy Mickels. Until I see firsthand references, I am unwilling to make the judgement.

Your second link is only relevant [i]if[/i] those claims were substantiated.

It is also important to note that the group in question is [b]not[/b] directly related to Rick Warren and his associate pastors. The "association" here is rather loose, in that Doug Fields happens to be one of the featured speakers at a conference sponsored by this group (I might add that: no one here has yet presented concrete evidence to prove the allegations against this group).

That is very, very [b]far[/b] from connecting the teaching of Eastern Meditative Practices with Rick Warren!


_________________
Sam

 2005/11/3 16:20Profile





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