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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Newly elected Iran President says Israel should be wiped out

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Jace
Member



Joined: 2005/9/23
Posts: 4
South Africa

 Re:

To get back to the point of Ahmadinejad of Iran threatening Israel, and believe me that is a threat. He doesn't realise he has given Israel the perfect political excuse to protect themselves, which they were going to do irrespective of what the world thinks when the time comes.

What is Islam's attitude towards Jews? Some would have you believe it's all roses, but lets see what the Qur'an and Hadith have to say.

Qur'an:
calls for war to be made on Jews and Christians until they are either defeated or subjected to humiliating lowliness (9:29)

Hadith:
Sahih Muslim, Book 40, Number 6985:
Mohamed said: The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

As far as trying to differentiate between anti-zionism and anti-semitism, you can dress it up as much as you like but it's still the same thing. Make no mistake Islam is at war with Israel and the Church.

Thanks to Eli-Barnabas for pointing out Psalm 83.

 2005/11/2 4:39Profile









 Mike Baalog

I am so confused as to what you are saying.

I was saying to Ron that I believe he's right in that he said rational conversation is not possible because I believe buttressed BY Scripture that Israel is well within its BIBLICAL rights to take its boundaries right up to the Euphrates river.

smug? thats you reading stuff into what I wrote.

The church makes big noise how it loves the Jewish people....up until the point where it has a Jew in its collective face.

this whole dialogue, "oh we're not anti-Israel , just anti-zionism" is a rhetorical tool used by the islamists and their supporters and apologists to justify their anti-Israeli, and ultimately anti-semitic worldview.

smug?

 2005/11/2 15:37









 Nasher

"Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates--all the Hittite country--to the Great Sea on the west.

Joshua 1:4

 2005/11/2 15:40
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Mike Baalog

Quote:
No, you're probably correct in your assessment, rational discussion is not possible when a feller believes that his world view is rooted in Scripture.


And would you believe that Ron's is not? That's fine to disagree, but does this above not have an edge to it?


Quote:
this whole dialogue, "oh we're not anti-Israel , just anti-zionism" is a rhetorical tool used by the islamists and their supporters and apologists to justify their anti-Israeli, and ultimately anti-semitic worldview.



And where did you find this from previous comments here? You said it Neil, no one else. Nor do I find any of the rhetoric in the least helpful.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/11/2 16:19Profile









 Re:

Quote:
And where did you find this from previous comments here?



Ron wrote:
Quote:
Ahmadinejad is anti-zionist. That means he is opposed to what the United Nations did in establishing an Israeli sovereign state. Israel, as a nation state, was 'put on the map' by a political process.



so now, as I'm to understand Ron's thinking, God's Hand had nothing to do with the creation of the modern state of Israel, it was merely a "political process", a function of the UN.

That to me is offensive on a number of levels, and to try and "understand" why some vile violent islamist cleric wishes to wipe Israel off the map is the same as trying to divine why Hitler and his minions tried to exterminate our people.

anti-Zionist is anti-Israel is anti-Jewish.

and if one is anti-Jewish, how can they say they follow Jesus? Thats why, no, anyone who is anti-Israel does not have a Scriptural worldview.

I'm sorry if you don't find my rhetoric helpful, I call it the way I see it:

anti-Zionist is anti-Israel is anti-Jewish.

 2005/11/2 16:47
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Nasher
i asked the question what in the old testament was done away with in the new testament and came to the conclusion that for us to fully understand the new testament, we must understand the old one too. God's promise to Israel concerning the territory was in not revoked by the New Convenant.

the only thing in the o.t. that doesn't apply is salvation by works, all the other promises God made still stand.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/11/2 17:26Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Thanks Iran

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may have unwittingly unified and provoked the nations into imposing sanctions on Iran against further nuclear development with his outspoken and ridiculous anti-Israel rhetoric. I think he has weakened Iran's position considerably. Because of the ongoing situation in Iraq, political opportunism over Katrina, and a botched judicial nominee President Bush's credibility to sell the priority of a third front in the mid-east would have been greatly diminished. Additionally, because Americans perceive themselves to be somewhat safe (foolishly?) since 9/11, the American expeditionary spirit would have also been diminished.

In light of this, the Iranian president might have been better off (edit: not the rest of the world) to hold his tongue while continuing to develop nuclear weapons in secret. With his recent warmongering speech Ahmadinejad has shown the west the importance of preventing further nuclear development in Iran. Ahmadinejad has also given Israel the entire pretext needed to bomb suspected nuclear facilities within Iran.

There is actually reason to view this situation with cautious optimism. Iran and Syria were really the last two states on Bushes list of countires that were to be denied nuclear weapons programs. Libya has capitulated, Iraq and Afghanistan have new governments and North Korea appears likely to forswear nuclear ambitions.

For a while I was concerned that a US led "regime change" was inevitable should Iran continue it's nuclear development...I really don't know. Yet now, the Iranian president has saved US taxpayers billions of military dollars and lives...he has made it impossible for the rest of the world to do nothing. Sanctions and coercion are always a preferred option to engagement, but these options don’t work unless there is unilateral cooperation. Perhaps Iran has just polarized the UN members into a nuclear embargo much like Tiananmen Square sparked a longstanding western arms embargo on China.

Well, that's my take on the situation. In this new world of asymmetrical warfare...it isn't the enemy shaking his fist in your face that you've got to worry about...it's the guy you haven't heard from for awhile.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/11/3 2:07Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
God's promise to Israel concerning the territory was in not revoked by the New Convenant.

God's promise to [u]Israel[/u] was an integral part of the Sinai Covenant which was finished by Christ's death at Calvary. You may have some stronger evidence from God's promise to [u]Abraham[/u] and his blood descendants but Sinai was a 'tenant's agreement' with specific requirements and a fixed period of agreement.“Wherefore then serveth the law? [u]It was added[/u] because of transgressions, [u]till the seed should come[/u] to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.” (Gal. 3:19, KJVS)This covenant has been replaced. Whether or not the Abrahamic covenant has continuing relevence is another question but the Sinai covenant 'ended' with Calvary.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/11/3 4:14Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Ron
thanks for the info and correcting me on that. what then is in store for Israel in terms of future restoration in this new covenant? does this mean Israel now has no rights to the territory it is on now as per the Abrahamic covenant or any covenant period?Does the abrahamic covenant then still apply in any way?

not meaning to bombard you with questions just trying to understand it all


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/11/3 10:52Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

I recently finished the book [b]Rees Howells Intercessor[/b] and before he died the Lord put a heavy burden of prayer upon him for the Jewish people, and that God would restore to them the land that was promised to them. This was before the state had actually come about yet.

Needless to say, the College made intercession for the land and for the Jews, and gained the victory of faith for it. Rees was overjoyed. We know that later the state of Israel was re-established. This was a victory of faith and a gift from God!

I seem to remember one of the last things Rees ever said before he died was with regards to this whole issue and how glorious it was that God restored His people's land. In his own words, it was "Glorious victory, hallelujah!"

I'm not sure how many of us are familiar with this man of God, and I am not suggesting Mr. Howell's is the final word on anything, but there is no doubt in my mind this man was completely obedient to the will of God and lived in it daily. There is no doubt in my mind that God has NOT forsaken His chosen people, and has given to them the land promised, by no coincidence (Deuteronomy 4:31).

Jesus will reign in Jerusalem, and all the earth will be amazed.

In Christ,
-Eli

[i]"Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee."[/i] - Isaiah 49:15


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2005/11/3 10:52Profile





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