| Re: Personal experience|
My own personal experience is that I have not yet experienced this fullness or the baptism of the Spirit.
I'm just praying that I will be empty of self, so that I can be full of the Spirit. No hidden agenda, no desire to be somebody, etc. That's what the Lord is dealing with me on at present.
It's good advice to avoid emotionalism or a reliant on feeling. There are many in the church who have "experienced God" but in reality they're not really walking with Jesus. That reality alone terrifies me away from any reliance on feeling.
Quote: Amen that's very sage advice. Here's another quote by Oswald Chambers:
I would never listen to a person who tells you to not think or pray.
This new life will reveal itself in conscious repentance followed by unconscious holiness, never the other way around.
If I go to church to get a special feeling but there's no real repentance, no real change of heart what do I have? Simply another form of godliness with no power.
| 2005/10/27 13:32||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
| The Servant as his Lord|
This is an excellent quotation and I was interested to see which of Chambers writings it came from. For any who want to read more...
Beware of the advice: Yield, give up your will. No man or woman has any right to yield himself or herself to any impression or any influence; immediately they do they are susceptible to all kinds of supernatural powers. There is only one Being to Whom we must yield, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. Be sure that it is Jesus Christ to whom you yield, then the whole nature is safeguarded for ever.
...Chambers' CD identified it as from "The Servant as His Lord", (United Kingdom: Marshall Morgan & Scott) c1959.
Have been shovering around near this section that was quoted for a few days, there is 3 or 4 sections prior that I have been meaning to bring out as well. One of which he talks about things that are 'satanic' that I think could well throw a wrench in a lot of thinking...
This is another one of those must read books.
| 2005/10/27 15:44||Profile|
| Re: Baptism of the spirit?!?!?!|
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit when I was almost 18 years old. I had recently become convinced through my study of the Scriptures that the gifts of the Spirit were for today (though I wasn't aware of the term yet, "baptism of the Holy Spirit"). I then prayed over a long period of time that the Lord would do whatever He wanted with me, and that I would do whatever He called me to do. One night as I lay in my bedroom, I suddenly became consumed with the presence of God, and had an awareness of God that I had not had since I first heard the gospel when I was 14. At that time, I felt as if God had called me into ministry, and told me that He knew where I had been, where I was at, and where I was going.
I was so consumed with the presence of God, I don't really remember if I spoke in tongues or not. I'm pretty sure I did, as I remember saying a bunch of different stuff while in prayer for a while. But I was just so caught up with God's presence, that I was more concerned about God's presence than anything else. I know I have spoken in tongues since then, and am relatively sure that I did that night, but am not absolutely certain that I did.
It seems every instance of Spirit baptism's recorded in the book of Acts, that those that received the Spirit seem to have all spoken in tongues, and sometimes also prophesied or exalted God. While many Pentecostals are convinced this establishes a fixed pattern of manifestations that will subsequently be followed in all future generations, there is nothing in Scripture that explicitly says that, and I cannot think of a theological reason as to why it must. While I'd say speaking in tongues seems to be the normal thing to happen when somebody is baptized in the Spirit, I don't think it can be dogmatically asserted that it must happen every time without exception. One simply cannot prove such dogmatically from the Scriptures.
| 2005/10/27 16:02||Profile|
I am confused. I thought there was only one baptism?
Ephesians 4:5 - (NLT)
There is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Why is everyone talking as if there is two?
To be saved is to be born again which means we are baptized in the Spirit. Is this wrong?
I thought some people had the gift of tongues and some do not. Can everyone obtain this gift?
Please help me understand.
| 2005/10/27 17:05||Profile|
| Re: Personal Experiences|
My personal experience with baptizm in the holy spirit is a bit... well. Lets just say that my first experience suffered the dogmatic "you must speak in tongues" approach.
Total hoey. But I spoke in tongues.
I don't know if I could pin a night to when God decided to let His Spirit loose in me. So I don't know if I can say I have ever been "baptized in the Spirit." But I know that God has indeed let loose His Spirit. I was baptized in the 9th grade, and I gained membership into my homechurch on November 9th, 1998. That event with tongues occured one late fall evening in 2003. Before then I had experienced some of the gifts of the Spirit. I had also experienced a lot of the fruits of the Spirit.
I have spoken in tongues before, although I find it very difficult to do so on command. Not something I understand completely.
It is my personal viewpoint that God doesn't come in chunks, its kind of all or nothing. I also hold the viewpoint that at baptism, God instills something into the heart of His followers. I haven't really investigated much further. I'm pretty sure there are better answers.
And for Ron, you mentioned a CD, where would I be able to acquire such a resource?
| 2005/10/27 17:31||Profile|
I am confused. I thought there was only one baptism?
this is a topic we have discussed several times, and several of us here on SI have different takes on the matter. There is a 'water baptism' which is separate from the 'Spirit baptism'. The 'two' might happen at the same time but they should always be distinguished from each other in our thinking.When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. (Acts 19:5-6, NKJV)I feel your Ephesians reference is to the 'Spirit baptism' but then my take on these things is different to most here on SI.
As regards my personal experience, Tina, as was originally asked... I often hesitate to tell it because it doesn't quite fit my theology! My first conscious turning to the Lord was 25th Oct 1958; I just marked its 47th anniversary. I knew I was loved, forgiven and accepted. Some 12 months later I began to meet with Pentecostal's and had a physical/spiritual experience of 'power' during which I spoke in tongues. I have continued to speak in tongues since that time. However, although I certainly gained a boldness in witnessing and preaching there was more that one sin that had me in its grip. I was the 'star' of the church I attended! I was actively involved in 7 meetings every Sunday, and well as interdenomiational activities in the town. I was very much involved in the early 60's charismatic movement in the UK. But I was still the same person I had always been, but with some bolt-on additions. I came to a point in my life where I was so distressed about my continuing sin and wrong disposition that I asked God to take away my life. I just could not live with myself any longer. I was 'sick to death' of myself. I called on the Lord in a new way and knew that in response to that cry God broke the power of my old disposition. If becoming a 'new creation' is the criterion, this was my time.
Now which of these shall I call 'the baptism'. The Brethren would say I was 'baptised in Spirit' at the first. The Pentecostals would say I was 'baptised in Spirit' at the second. The 2nd Blessing Holiness people would say I was 'baptised in Spirit' at the third. What do I say? It was a long drawn out, going... going... gone! but I regard the whole 'process' as 'One Baptism'.
Now let's see what the theologians on SI make of that. :-D
| 2005/10/27 17:46||Profile|
North West England
MAT 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but hethat cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
One baptism for the forgiveness of sins, after we have been forgiven we only need to 'wash our feet':
Jn 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit:
The Baptism in the Holy Ghost is different. I too am a little confused about the Spirit filling thing, having not had the experience I have seen in others (radical life change, not just show or tongues) I have asked God for the Holy Ghost, told Him I cannot do anything without Him , but no big change. However, when I preach on the street I just open my mouth and He gives me the words to say, when I am witnessing I hear His prompting, when I am teaching I hear His voice. Some would call me filled, but I was perhaps expecting something different.
As I am writing this I will put something down and delete it cos He is showing me He has already done what I think He hasn't. May be I'm more filled than I first thought. :-o
I will go away now not wanting to confuse anyone. :-(
| 2005/10/27 17:48||Profile|
Quote: Mine came with a huge volume called the Complete Works of Oswald Chambers. It is available from [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/157293039X/103-0216547-3431067?v=glance]Amazon.com[/url]
And for Ron, you mentioned a CD, where would I be able to acquire such a resource?
[b]but will it run on a Mac[/b]
The CD uses the 'logos' software engine which, I think, is only available for Windows/PCs. I access it on my Mac with a PC Emulator programme. This [url=http://www.logos.com/press/releases/macintosh03-2005]logos news item[/url] suggests that logos will be available for the Mac in December, but it would be well to check that the CD with the book will run on Mac.
| 2005/10/27 17:52||Profile|
I would have to say that I agree with you.
The way I see it is like this. Spirit baptism is an act of promise by God to us. Water baptism is an act of promise by us to God. A relationship can only form when two commit to each other. Often times, God will make His commitment to us, but we don't make our commitment to Him. We think we do, sometimes, but we only give Him part.
In my case, I had already made a commitment to God before I was saved. I didn't know, however, that it was the wrong God. So, when I came to Jesus, I was ready and willingly for Him to mold me anyway He wished. When I discovered Christ, it impacted me so greatly, I laid everything at His feet that very night. Of course, this is something I must do daily for I am extremely clumsy.
As far as being born again, and transformed into a new creation, I have seen different transformations. Some are immediate. People change like night and day. Others take many years to change.
The reason for this, I think, is that God respects our free will, our choices. He doesn't force anything upon us even after salvation. He will saves us at the right time. However, our willingness to let Him change us affects the process to becoming the full likeness of Christ.
Not to mention, it makes for one great testimony of the power of Christ.
I would not be so quick to say when it was you were baptized in the Spirit, for that is neither my decision or my place. That is a matter between you and Christ. Besides, the important thing is not when it happened, but that it did. To see how you have grown is an immense inspiration for any Christian.
I am thankful for all my fellow brother's and sister's in Christ. Praise Jesus for saving each one of you and that we can come together in love as the body of Christ.
Thanks for sharing your life story too.
| 2005/10/27 20:00||Profile|
| Re: Baptism of the spirit?!?!?!|
I was baptised by the Holy Ghost after listening to lots of sermons by Ravenhill (John Baptist-Fire of God, Revival Hymn, Video Interview, etc) and starting seeking the baptism of fire from Luke 3:16. Seeking the fire of the Lord seemed to woo me, as I had never been instructed on this subject. I really didn't know what all of that meant, I just knew that I had never had an experience that I could call a baptism of fire from the Holy Ghost.
Two dear Christian brothers, one who regularly street preaches, and the other is preparing to be a pastor, came over to spend the night, and we spent all night talking. They were a blessing to just have in my house. I remember praying during this time that I could just be crucified to the world, that I would die right where I was, that Christ would be risen in my place, that God could have me tortured, or killed, but that I just wanted to be decreased so that He could increase in my death.
That morning we did a devotion together, and during my prayer, my voice began to quiver. I used to think that guys were just putting on when they did that, but it just felt like God was right on top of me.
Not long after they left, I was in the shower, and just went down on my knees suddenly. I got my composure, but the Spirit hit me again walking up the steps in my house. The third time was like being in a spiritual wind tunnel. While driving the Spirit of the Lord descended on me like a flame. I screamed like a wild man, "GLORY TO GOD! REVIVAL IS ON!" I've never done heavy drugs, but this had to be better. I was so excited, basically because I now knew that revival could happen, today, right now. That what happened to me could happen to a church or group of Christians who wanted it.
Once I pulled up at the church, I just laid limp sobbing. I wouldn't have been able to stop crying had someone seen me. It was very, very purifying. How about this for divine appointment: the first person I talked to about it was one of the women at the church who had been praying for fresh wind and fire on us. So when I told her what happened, I was surprised to hear her say, 'That's what we've been praying for.'
The next ten days were not fun. It felt like non-stop super-sensitivity. I stayed up late reading Scripture, there were nights praying where I was afraid to look because it felt like the Lord was in the room with me. I remember crawling on one occasion to the office to pray.
Anyway, I did not speak in tongues. I will lay my pride aside. I listened to Duncan Campbell's testimony, amazingly right after my experience, and he experienced the same thing, without tongues. Don't get me wrong, I think some people do...'to another...'etc. But I did read a book, that I think is completely wrong, that explained how to start speaking in tongues. I attempted on two occasions to do what the book said and just let myself go, speaking words I didn't know. I did not feel edified in the least by doing this.
I did not stop feeling super-weird until about ten days after the Spirit hit me, when I read what happened after Jesus was led into the wilderness by the Spirit after the Holy Ghost fell on Him. He was led into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. I honestly think that God gave me up to be beat up a little demonically after my experience. The weirdness left during a flood of tears upon reading Jesus' first words in Scripture after His anointing: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." It just hit me that my spiritual life would be like a ship on an ocean, and that my only anchor was the unchanging Word of God.
One night I seriously prayed for God to give me tongues if it was His will, but His answer was, 'covet earnestly the best gifts.'
Three things have been disheartening to me since the experience that I would like to mention. 1) Some people speak of the baptism of the Holy Ghost as the same experience as a baptism of tongues. They spoke in tongues, and therefore say they were baptized by the Spirit. No bowing before God, no earnest prayer, no dying to the world, just tongues. 2) Some people say concerning tongues that not everyone 'gets it,' as if since you didn't speak in tongues your experience was only half-genuine, or you have not completed the latter half of your baptism 3) Many people don't know how to treat the experience, and because of what they believe or have been taught, may not avoid you, but will avoid the subject altogether, or not address the issue even when you intentionally bring it up so that they can have the same.
Sorry for the long post, it is just that this experience was most certainly the sweetest moment I have ever had with the Lord. Much, much stronger than my salvation, which was nothing to scoff at either. This was just other-worldly. So to anyone who is scared of the experience, just read through the gospels and Acts with this experience in mind, and remember that it is the Spirit the Christ gave us. It is God's Spirit. It is the third member of the trinity. He's nothing new in orthodox Christianity, just a little misunderstood and way over-ignored I think.
| 2005/10/27 23:05||Profile|