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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Who are the sons, what is the devil doing there?

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CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Stever wrote:
Job 1:6-7
6. Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

What this Scripture teaches me is that Satan still has access to Heaven, and is still subservient to his maker, God Almighty.



What if this refers to the "sons of [elohim]", is a reference to a day in which the people of like nature to Seth (ie, they "call upon the name of the LORD (Yahweh)" - Gen 4:26)? This would create a senario where Satan is coming to God, as His people are "calling upon Him" and God points Satan's attention to one amongst these who please Him, namely Job. This is in contrast to the people that Satan encountered as he was "going to and fro in the earth". This presents the silent possibilty of a contrast between people who are dependant on God's participation in their life and those who pridefully think that they need not "call upon the name of the Lord".

In other words, this could be a situation where Satan is bragging about how many people their are who are subject to his kingdom, compared to the tiny remnant of God's "sons".

Note that this protects the integrity of the KJV translation (ie, rightly choosing to translate 'elohim' as 'God' rather than 'angels' as it is in Pslam 8:5). To my knowledge this verse is not actually quoted in the NT, and every verse that was mentioned in Stever's post, "sons of God" translates "theos" as "God", where Heb 2:7 translates "elohim", from Psalm 8:5, as "angellos" which in English is rendered "angels". Obviously all the NT references to "sons of God" are refering to "mortal beings" and not "amgels", so this would further support the notion that "sons of God" in Job also refers to "mortal beings" with a disposition that is "like unto" or even a "consequence of union with and dependance on" God.

I concure with Stever who said, "This is a title of nature and not of office." I would perhaps go a step further to say that it is a "description of character and not a title of office". I believe it was Norman Grubb who made mention to God's ultimate goal of "bringing many sons to Glory" (Heb 2:10), comparing it to Henry Ford setting up an "English Ford Motors", a "Dutch Ford Motors", an "Australian Ford Motors", etc... by effectively "replicating himself" by raising up staff that hold to his values and menthods, and then sending them out to replicate his "American Ford Motors". Perhaps Job also presents a "pre-NT" illustration of "sonship" in limited form, just as 'OT-Levicial-sacrificial atonement" is a limted expresion of "NT-Messianic-sacrificial atonement", where the former merely "covers sin" while the latter "removes sin".

So we have it again, the never ending alusion to the "Tale of Two Kingdoms". I guess it makes more sence than a disjointed "staff meeting of angels" in the Book of Job, that has no relevancy to the rest of the story. But as anyone who has followed any of my posts in the past, I am capable of being wrong (no...seriously :-P) so anyone who can close this theory out, would be very welcome to this "seeker of truth"... but you've got to admit, it makes sence.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/5/18 7:43Profile









 Re: Sons of God

CJaKfOrEsT posted:

this refers to the "sons of [elohim]", is a reference to a day in which the people of like nature to Seth (ie, they "call upon the name of the LORD (Yahweh)" - Gen 4:26)? This [u][b]would/COULD [/b][/u]create a senario where Satan is coming to God, as His people are "calling upon Him" and God points Satan's attention to one amongst these who please Him, namely Job.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever's respoonse:


It seems to me that the Sons of God, as mentioned in Genesis refers to all believers in God, going all of the way back to Adam, and carried forward through Abel, and finally Noah, and then carried forward past the flood by the line of Seth. These were all believers in the "Seed of the Woman" that presented blood sacrifices to the Lord to cover their sin, until the final sacrifice, Christ Jesus, paid the ultimate price for all believers, going back to the beginning of time, to the end of time.


I am in a rush right now, but will try to post this over the weekend.

God bless,

Stever

 2006/5/18 10:12
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

A son is either a son by creation or a son by birthing, that is why in the Old Testament nobody called God Father. Only after birthing can a son call the Seed giver Father. The son's of God in Hosea are yet future son's that will be birthed by the Seed of Christ in them making them son's of the Living God and are able to call the Life Giver Father.

In the place where it was said - (or where it shall be said, i. e., at the first) unto them, ye are not My people, there it shall, in after-time, this after time is after the Cross then by the birthing it may be said unto them, ye are the sons of the living God Both the times here spoken of by the prophet were yet future, for Israel, although they had apostatised from God, had not yet been disowned by God, who was still sending to them prophets, to reclaim them. They ceased to be owned as God's people, when, being dispersed abroad, they had no share in the sacrifices, no temple-worship, no prophets, no typical reconciliation for sin. God took no more notice of them than the pagan. Acts 28:27-28 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. The prophet spoke of two futures; one, when it shall be said to them, "ye are not My people;" and a yet further future, in which it should he said, "ye are the sons of the living God." The place of both was to be the same. The place of their rejection, the dispersion, was to be the place of their restoration. And so Peter says that this Scripture was fulfilled in them, while still "scattered abroad through Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia." The place, then, where they shall be called the "sons of the living God," is, wheresoever they should believe in Christ. Although separated in body, they were united by faith. And so it shall be unto the end. "Nothing now constraineth to go up to Jerusalem, and still to seek for the temple of stones, for neither will they worship God, as aforetime, by sacrifices of sheep or oxen; but their worship will be faith in Christ and in His commandments, and the sanctification in the Spirit, and the regeneration through Holy Baptism into Christ by the Holy Spirit and Christ baptizing By the Father into the Holy Spirit making the glory of sonship their's that believe, who are worthy thereof and are called thereto son's of the Living God by the Lord"

All son's in the old testament are created son's, such as Adam, Angels and Satan all son's of God who of flesh on earth and son's of God who are spirit in heaven. Job 1:6-7 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Notice IN the earth, not on the earth, which is created Flesh beings, and in the earth created spiritual beings.

Satan was defeated at the Cross and no longer has access to the Father's Throne, for The Heal of Christ Is still bruising the Head of Satan His footstool, which will become complete when all is put under the rule and authority of Christ, when He sits on David's Throne in the New Jerusalem.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/5/18 15:52Profile





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