This is a carry-over from the post How Christ delivered me from the power of sin, by Ernest ONeill, and the reason for the major theme of my posts. This is correct; it is the major theme of my posts and the fire that is burning in my bones: Praying (= asking) to the Father in the name of Jesus.Brother Mike, I hear you and I know what you are saying. I dont want to push my point, for it isnt MY point. I respect all of you, I go much further than that, I pray for you all, for you all are a part of Gods Church. I know that some of the things I say seem outrageous to some or maybe even most of you. Please consider this post and allow me to explain a few more things so I can share what the Lord has laid on my heart. I am deeply convicted that is the Lord, for I cant for one moment believe that Satan would try to bring us together. Now we are not.Freecd, I know who my Savior is, and yes, I certainly experience freedom from the carnal nature Christ died for. Thank you Jesus!InTheLight. Brother Ron, thank you and bless you.
This issue of whether or not we should pray to Jesus and the Spirit really seems to be a major theme of many of your posts. It is a matter of interest but I hope it isn't a matter of fellowship for you. I pray to the Father, I also pray to Jesus, and I pray to the Holy Spirit, and I believe I'm in some good company, here are just a few examples...
_________________Hans Prang
Dear, Dear Hans!Your fellowship and additions here are wonderful, perhaps it's the devil himself that would have you believe otherwise. Don't take that the wrong way. I don't think it is a reach at all to state that by and large what goes on here is a grand wrestling with not only ourselves but a wonderful .... pushing and shoving each other onto considering just what it is we believe. That might be a poor choice of words in that what can come about is a divisiveness over things when it ought to be a challenge to consider, to think, to re-evaluate things as we each bring our perspectives and understanding out and let all of it be examined not with an eye on criticism but on purity more so honesty.Think we can all get off track right at that point. I can hardly think of a better example than this incredibly honest man that has been brought to our attention lately, a one Mr. Earnest O'Neill, how well his name fits! "Earnest".Give me honesty any day over doctrine.... Ah, careful Mikey... Doctrine can always be modified and codified and addressed, kind of back to the original mention here, It IS important of course and it is not to be set aside or moved out of a place of importance or order. It's almost to say that it is of such great importance that you can't even draw near to it without removing your shoes. Am going to be off on another long winded tangent before I know it, the residue from reading through this latest installment of honesty mentioned in that other post still just reverberating.Help me here Hans, I think maybe I am getting the gist of this from here:
Please take your Bible and read carefully how the serpent deceived Eve. He questioned the authority of God. And Church, he still does. That is the whole point of my posts and responses; returning to the very basics of the teachings of Jesus and Paul. Has no one to date questioned the fact why it is that Jesus clearly and explicitly told us how to pray, and that from the very early beginning of the Church age, man has found ways to question the God-head, God Himself, and EVERYTHING that Jesus taught us? Who would be leading that kind of questioning? God? I dont think so, there is only one deceiver with an enormous great army of helpers who will do nothing rather than to keep us divided and questioning how we can improve on what Jesus told us to do. The most effective way to deceive someone is to make them believe that what they are doing is correct.
Through another dream and word, the Lord told me that the Church wouldnt listen to the warning and continue on Her chosen path which would lead to Her destruction. I understand the judgment on the Church to be deception and that She will refuse to be corrected. As a result I have prayed, following the examples of Moses, Daniel, and others, since the spring of 2001 that I would be given an opportunity to speak again, or at least to make the message the Lord gave me, known to someone in the Church who would listen, AND, who would be listened to because of their established credentials. I have none, by the virtue of the fact that no one knows me. I have spoken to individual pastors and ministry leaders, some of whom privately agree that the message is correct, but who will not back it publicly, because it will cost them their job. The Lord gave me two names of individuals who I should talk to. One is David Wilkerson. I called T.S.C. in New York, was assured that he would read my book, but then I received a polite but curt note that there NO way that he even could or would consider what I had to say.
_________________Mike Balog
Dear Brother Mike,The reason that I asked the question about fellowship was because of the comment from InTheLight:
This issue of whether or not we should pray to Jesus and the Spirit really seems to be a major theme of many of your posts. It is a matter of interest but I hope it isn't a matter of fellowship for you.
Brother, it is just to consider this consideration; The great majority here just want to go on with the Lord in spirit and truth in a reality and honesty. And in all the honesty that I can state it, I find that there is much that I am wrong about and love to be corrected, I don't mind in the least being a fool if it will help this poor man and others get at what the Lord would have us to grasp.
Hi Hans,Not sure what Ron meant there exactly, will let him answer that. But curious about the tongues thing, didn't find anything peculiar at all, in fact thought his comments were refreshing;[i]I spoke in tongues about a year and a half later. I don't know that tongues are a big deal in the thing anyway. I think they're many of us that haven't spoken in tongues I don't think that's an issue. Certainly I didn't then, but there was an absolute confidence that the Holy Spirit had come into my life and filled me and cleansed my heart. I felt the cleanness inside. I felt the cleanness. There's a line in our First World War poem that goes, it's a misinterpretation of course of the First World War like swimmers into cleanness leaping. Well that's what it was. It was like a swimmer in the cleanness leaping. For the first time I had not had this refuge and garbage and dirt inside my heart. It was the first time I had not had a fountain of strong desire for lust or envy or pride or anger or jealousy coming up from inside my heart. It was just a quietness inside.[/i]Keep in mind that this is a transcript from a message. But even then it's a pretty frank admission ..."I think they're many of us that haven't spoken in tongues I don't think that's an issue." I am not sure why you would want to read more into that then what is there. It's as if he is mentioning it in passing, not as a prerequisite.And for that matter, would align right alongside you in your other sentiments. Have been in the midst of a soul grieving display of just pure nonsense in this regard, a 'coaching' and coaxing it out of people all made to speak gibberish at the same time with no interpretation and the exhortation to "let your mind go". Frankly, I thought it was demonic and repulsive, especially coming minutes after weeping over the destruction brought on from 911, which was the whole reason for the gathering, or so I thought. That was fairly quickly put away to get "back to what we had been teaching on". And I caught all kinds of flack at home over it, but never again set foot in that church.For all that, if the Lord was to grant this gift and I believe He still does, that would be truly wonderful. But all this fakery and shenanigans that is part of the modern day nonsense or that by some twisting of scripture is made to be a "must" or a condition is rubbish.I just don't see that in what Mr. O'Neill stated brother.
LetUsPray wrote:Unless we seek the real work of the Holy Spirit by humbling ourselves, crucifying the flesh, and submitting to God’s Word, we will not receive the discernment we so desperately need.
_________________Zeke Oosthuis
If I am “out of fellowship” because of this, please tell me and I will cease and desist right now, sign off, and go back to my knees and beg my Father for mercy for the Church. If my burden and focus doesn’t prevent me from fellowship with you, I will continue to address the things that “the Spirit” within me, shows me. I am not trying to make a name for myself; there are ways that are much more effective than “going against the flow.” I have been given a message, and the burden to bring that message has not as yet been taken from me.
The Lord gave me two names of individuals who I should talk to. One is David Wilkerson. I called T.S.C. in New York, was assured that he would read my book, but then I received a polite but curt note that there NO way that he even could or would consider what I had to say.
_________________Ron Halverson
Brother Ron,
Just to clarify, did the Lord instruct you to warn Mr. Wilkerson specifically about this matter of prayer to Jesus or was it concerning some other matter?
Looking at the imperfection that so easily surrounds us and even at times overwhelms us, can make us hard, cynical and despondent
But curious about the tongues thing, didn't find anything peculiar at all, in fact thought his comments were refreshing;
Hi Hans,Very helpful in fuller exploring where you are coming from and going with this.
There are a number of factors that all play a role in what I believe the importance of prayer to the Father through Jesus Christ is. It partly stems from my observance of Christians who exercise authority for healing, deliverance, and other ministries in the Body. I have seen Christians yell at demons in tongues, for this allows the power of the Holy Spirit to rise up within them, so they explain. Some command in the name of Baby Jesus or others in the name of the Child Jesus. Again, others have people put their fingers in the palm of their hands, since this signifies where the wounds of Jesus were. One evangelist who came to a Church spit in the peoples face, another hit people in the back with his fist. Sadly, he did this to a dear brother who was suffering with a chronic back injury. He wasnt healed; it rather had the opposite effect.
In some prayer meetings we wave flags (the Banner of the Lord), build altars, ask for a Michael or Gabriel anointing, or in one I was asked just to beat on an African drum in the Spirit, again, to increase the flow of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. The common denominator in most of these events is the increased attention to the Holy Spirit, sometimes Jesus, very seldom or ever the Father. It is very good possible that no one who comes on SI ever even heard of this, but I happen to see it where ever I go, and not only where I live. I know for certain that these things are practiced and taught in the USA and in Africa.
Is it reasonable to put these aside and just explore the Bible? The Bible is very clear, but again, we see different interpretations by different scholars. These differences dont come from God. The answer has to be in the Bible and the only way to find the truth is the use the Bible, since that is the only inspired Scriptures we have.
What I see however, is that a lot of different saints are quoted. Is it reasonable to put these aside and just explore the Bible? The Bible is very clear, but again, we see different interpretations by different scholars. These differences don’t come from God. The answer has to be in the Bible and the only way to find the truth is the use the Bible, since that is the only “inspired” Scriptures we have.
Hi Mike, Ron, and all others who follow this thread,
And would agree that it should be explored biblically,
These are men held in high esteem around here, fallible men just as you and I, but nonetheless, I do feel it is fair to consider their walk as it regards this topic.