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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Lord, teach us to pray.

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Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173

 Lord, teach us to pray.

Lordship without obedience is a lie.

That is the true Christian walk, total obedience and submission to ALL THAT JESUS TAUGHT US (Matt.28:20). If we don’t obey even the smallest, tiniest, and miniscule part of God’s Word, Jesus is not really the Lord of our life. We have idols that take His place. We have made ourselves gods to OUR liking and OUR understanding. We have seen a lot of posts on how to be obedient through holy Spirit-led living. There are a multitude of teachers and preachers from long ago till the present. We talk about being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues, praying to the Holy Ghost and in the Holy Ghost, etc., etc.

Why don’t we apply the same rules of Scripture interpretation to how we worship our God? He is the reason for our being. Has the God of the Old Testament changed in holiness and is He in the New Testament less concerned about the way we should worship Him? I know and am very aware that the debate about the Trinity has continued from the early days of the Church. Why is there a debate? Is it possible that we are not as strict about how to pray, as we are about how to obey God in other parts of our daily lives? It must be. On the one hand we declare that anyone who sins [disobeys God] is from the devil, on the other hand we find ways to justify changing the way Jesus commanded us to pray.

On this forum have been posts about prayer, and comments about all the amount of prayer that doesn’t appear to have any impact. One even suggested that we shouldn’t pray about calamities that are going to strike. On the other hand we hear about a lot of answered prayer. Again, others are fasting and praying for revival. Prayer is the most essential part of our relationship with God. Why do we continue to differ about it? Why can we not go back to what Jesus said to His disciples?

Luke 11
1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say [verb mood is imperative, i.e. it is a command], Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth…….

Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray [verb mood is imperative, i.e. it is a command] ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

In both Gospels it is quite evident that Jesus commanded us to pray to the Father Who is in HEAVEN. Only one time is there a record where Paul besought the Lord and Jesus said to Him My grace is sufficient for thee. It was the request for deliverance from the thorn in the flesh in the context of the man [many at least agree that this is Paul] who was taken up to the third heaven. In this instance Paul appears directly to address Jesus, rather than the Father. In all other cases Paul always refers to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. In one instance Paul actually writes that he is on his knees asking the Father [Who is in heaven] that He will grant the believers of the Ephesian Church to be strengthened with power in their inner man, SO that Christ may dwell in their hearts through faith….etc.
Paul never asks the Holy Spirit for strengthening, anointing, or for anything at all; neither does anyone else in the entire New Testament.

To declare that it doesn’t make any difference who we pray to, because the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God, is human interpretation. It has no grounds in Scripture and directly contradicts ALL that Jesus commanded us. Jesus even told His disciples: And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you (John 16:23).

We have to go back to the basics and ask ourselves: why did Jesus come to the earth? Why did the curtain in the Temple in Jerusalem tear from the top to the bottom when Jesus died? Why have we been given the Holy Spirit and what should He cause us to do?

Jesus came to save us FROM our sin, and to reconcile us TO the Father. That’s why God caused the Holy of Holies to be opened for entry by anyone who would commit themselves to believe Jesus for their salvation and obey Him in EVERYTHING. Jesus did not come to reconcile us to Himself. In previous posts I have underscored that we are called to worship Jesus, but NOT to ask Him but the Father in His name.

2 Corinthians 5
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Corinthians 6
1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

In this last verse Paul beseeches us NOT to receive the grace of God in vain, since we work together with the Lord. In another Scripture Paul exhorts us to be imitators of Him as He is of Christ. Twice Paul writes about the Holy Spirit we have received who causes us to cry out Abba! Father! Why is it that we suppress this within ourselves by continuing to ask Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Don’t we quench the Spirit this way?

Can we really be filled with the Holy Spirit when we do this? If Christ is really in us by His Spirit, would we not, just as He, know what is within man? More and more am I puzzled why it is that so many “Spirit filled” Christians don’t have any discernment when it comes to the wiles of the devil and the different evangelists and prosperity teachers they run to. If Christ really lived within us we would be able to discern right from wrong; we would be able to discern a true teacher from a false one. But it cannot be, because even about the simple basics of how to pray, we argue and continue to disagree.

Jesus prayed and asked the Father: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me (John 17:23).
This is what Paul said about the same unity:

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:


This should not be difficult, yet it is. It is very difficult, because in almost 2,000 years we haven’t been able to figure it out. Are we REALLY filled with the Spirit, Christ in us, the Hope of Glory? If that was true dear brothers and sisters, we would be one. We would hear the voice of our Savior in our hearts; we would know when error is preached; we would know when a leader was unclean. Do we really believe that if Jesus lived in our hearts by His Spirit, He wouldn’t tell us what is right and what is wrong? If that is true, why did He even bother to go to the cross?

For me the very sad thing is that fellow Christians always tell me: Hans you are dreaming, it will NEVER happen! So…..the world will never know that Jesus was sent by the Father so that He through His sacrifice on the cross He would reconcile the world to His Father. Certainly, we can lead people to our different churches and we can choose and decide what we like better or what seems more “correct” to us, but we will NEVER be one.

John 16
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

I don’t see any other way to interpret this, than to say that The Spirit of Truth will guide us into all Truth. How does He do that: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him (1 John 2:27). We don’t have to ask for anointing, if the Holy Spirit lives in us, we already have it.


Hans Prang

 2005/10/11 20:49Profile

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