This is a comment regarding the various threads about the fact that it is NOT normal to sin. No true Christian in his or her right mind can say or would say it is.
A Simple Gospel by Ernest O'NeillEven a baby Christian has the power that is stated clearly in 1 John 3:9, if you'd look at it. Even a little one who has just begun to know his position with Jesus or her position with Jesus on the cross is in the same situation as that described in 1 John 3:9, "No one born of God commits sin." In other words, when Paul says, "I do what I do not want," he's saying, I'm not a Christian, because a Christian never does what he doesn't want to do, because that's the word, it's poieo, those of you who know Greek, and it's p-o-i-e-o in English letters. That's the word used in 1 John 3:9. It means "to do," it becomes poet, you know, in English, poetry, you make something, you do something. Poieo is "to do." That's what that verse says. No one born of God does sin. That is, even a little child Christian, even a little one who has just begun to know Jesus has enough power of Jesus' Spirit in his life to hold down what is wrong. At least he can rise to the level of the noble pagans, that's it. That's what that verse says.
Loved ones, you have enough of Jesus' Spirit in you to obey outwardly all that he says is right. Now I agree with you, we have to deal later with what, can you be delivered from inward sins, from feeling anger, from the inclination to sin. The truth is you can, but at least the first step in Christianity is not believing that Jesus died instead of you, because the Bible doesn't say that anywhere. The Bible says Jesus died for you. But it means so that you could die with him, to yourself and to all the powers within you that make you do what you don't want to do. If you're willing to identify yourself with Jesus, he through his Spirit can give you enough power and enough grace to live like him.
All of us will know the words that the angel spoke to Joseph telling him about the coming birth of His son, "She will bear a son," the angel said, Mary, Mary will bear a son, "and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
so Lord we would come to you now, and Holy Spirit ask you, is there any way in which we are not entering into Jesus' death
Hans,I'm going to go out on a limb here and not begin to answer your whole post, but to pick up on one tiny (or maybe it's not so tiny) point, to say how I would [i]reinterpret[/i] the information you've given (about yourself - I hope that's ok) in my own words. You may disagree with me, or wish to reinterpret my 'language' differently again.You said
I didnt get the power of Jesus Spirit to stop the rage within me, until I was delivered from the spirit of rage.
As far as I can remember, the New Testament always puts the blame for the bad behaviour on the spirit and never places responsibility on the PERSON with the spirit, for having the spirit.
I meet too many people who want to be real Christians, and they dont seem to be able to get there.
Yet how do spirits get into people. [b]Is it not through [u]sinful[/u] footholds in people's lives[/b]? There has to be [b]a condition[/b] in a person that makes them open to the entry of a spirit.
I would just like to present some food for thought on this whole realm of deliverance from spirits. I think we may give the devil far too much credit for some things and taken to extremes (I'm not saying those here are) everything can be seen to be the result of demons. But that's not what Galatians 5 says. Verse 19 says "the works of the [i]flesh[/i] are these..." and it goes on to list a whole bunch of things, wrath and hatred among them. Now we can't cast out the flesh can we? No. So it seems a little ridiculous to reduce everything to that level. Also, I believe there is a danger of taking the focus off of our true responsibility for sin and placing it on demons. That's not where God places the responsibility. I don't fear demon invasion, I fear that I will be disobedient and sinful. My responsibility is to look at my own life and be obedient to God.In Christ,Ron
Frome Ernest O'NiellOur great privilege is that described in 1 John 3:9, "Whosoever, or anybody born of God does not commit sin." Of course sin is explained and defined clearly in James 4:17 where it says, "Anybody who knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him that is sin." So outward sin is conscious disobedience to God's will. The great mark and privilege for those of us who are born of God is that we do not commit sin. The emphasis here is do. We do not do any act or speak any word that is disobedient to God's will and that we know is disobedient to Him. So many of us who are born of God have experienced that. When we first met Jesus we saw that certain things that we did were wrong. We stopped swearing, we stopped having adulterous thoughts, we stopped being sarcastic, we stopped boasting, we stopped drinking, we stopped gambling, we stopped certain outward actions that we knew displeased God and many of us who have been born of God have come to that place.We have been freed from outward sin, however, great numbers of us have been troubled, not so much by outward sin which we managed to keep away from for the first few months or years of our relationship with God. Most of us are troubled by the subject we talked about last Sunday. We are troubled about inward sin, about stuff that nobody sees and indeed, few people know about but ourselves. That, loved ones, is what I would like us to talk about together this morning because inward sin is what causes many of us heartache and defeat. Many of us, in other words, are really not unlike good Jews. Many of us are not very unlike good humanness. We outwardly conform to not what we know is true. That is not surprising because even the Greek and roman philosophers did that. They expected in themselves outward conformity to known precepts. So many of us who are born of God are in that position. Outwardly we conform our lives to the things that people expect and that the Bible describes of children of God and in that way we are like all good Jews and all good humanness and all pagan philosophers and all noble pagans.Many of us are like them in another way, that we do that at the expense of an unbelievable inner conflict. In other words, many of us do what is right outwardly but we do it only because we manage to keep down incredibly monstrous and savage urges inside us that want to break out and that are constantly contradicting what we are doing outwardly. In other words, many of us have been in the position where a friend had got a good job or a friend has been promoted instead of us or a friend has come into a lot of money. We have stuck out our hand and said, "Congratulations," and inside in our hearts is rising envy of their good fortune and jealousy and indeed a creeping sort of suspicion that really we ought to have experienced that. We deserve it as much as they do. Go here to read the whole thing.http://www.victoryoversin.com/hsclean.htm
LetUsPray wrote:This is a comment regarding the various threads about the fact that it is NOT normal to sin. No true Christian in his or her right mind can say or would say it is.
Freecd, thank you for that reference.Dorcas, thank you for your sharing and insight. I write this from my experience in my walk with the Lord, Who I give all the glory for all that He has done in my life. Roadsign, wicked spirits gain access to people and places because of sin. The less a person is able to defend her/himself, the easier the access becomes. Thats why young sexual abuse victims have the greatest struggles to find freedom. Another area has to with curses that parents put on their children by continuously putting them down and telling them that they will never amount to anything, while underscoring this with inordinate amounts of punishment, being physical or mental. They also come in all forms; there are many religious spirits operating in the Body of Christ, because of disobedience in the worship of God. This doesnt only apply to certain denominations who worship created beings besides God, but also as a result of disobedience in the operation of spiritual gifts.
Ezekiel said, "God is going to take away your heart of stone and He is going to give you a new heart, a soft heart and He is going to put a new spirit within you. He is going to take away from you this evil spirit." That is the whole purpose of the new covenant of Christ
.There are thousands of us that will testify to the fact that years after we were born of God we became aware of a need for a deeper work in our hearts and we began to seek it. (The Holy Spirit brings a Clean Heart, by Ernest ONeill)
So the first thing is believe that the Holy Spirit is a person in your life and ask Him, "Holy Spirit, will you begin to counsel me about this and will You begin to take me down to the depths of my inner self so that I, at last know myself." (The Holy Spirit brings a Clean Heart, by Ernest ONeill)
wicked spirits gain access to people and places because of sin. The less a person is able to defend her/himself, the easier the access becomes.
Roadsign and Dorcas and others,I am sorry Diane, I didnt answer your question clearly and this may also address Dorcas questions:
Yet how do spirits get into people. Is it not through sinful footholds in people's lives? There has to be a condition in a person that makes them open to the entry of a spirit. I would be interested in knowing more about this "spirit of rage" that you share about, Hans. How did it get there? Anger doesn't just "happen to someone".
Or all three? Are there more?
I was saved in a charismatic church. A few months later, after praying with a pastor received the gift of tongues. Strangely enough some of the difficulties I struggled with prior to my conversion didnt go away. Sure, I was on cloud nine for several weeks, but I came crashing down when my rage manifested itself again and I experienced very strange things, even physical attacks by unseen beings. I was scared as I had never been before. To make a long story short, through time I was delivered of three demons. The last one was the most difficult, because its root was hidden in something that I had no recollection of. It came to the surface when I attended a compulsory counseling session as part of a course. During that session something started actually to speak through me and at one point I saw myself when I was sexually molested as a small child.