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Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Yeah, amen brother Blake :-)


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2005/10/3 19:52Profile
lamuskrat
Member



Joined: 2005/10/3
Posts: 117
Gonzales, La

 Re: Stop Sinning!

Thank You, and again I say Thank You...

I am new here but have been lurking for a while. Guess I was testing the water.

I am so glad to hear someone stand-up and speak out about sin. Not just sin but sin in the so-called, self-proclaimed christians life. Where are all the watchmen and men of God with backbone and fortitude to call sin:sin, heaven: sweet and hell:hot.


_________________
Mike Androne

 2005/10/3 20:14Profile









 Re: Stop sinning! - a word overheard...

Mike said

Quote:
The point left to me was, to stop all this bobbing and weaving. The word is STOP. Stop now. Obedience now.

Once, I was sitting right at the front of a conference, close enough to hear the preacher counsel a woman who had come forward. She explained how irresistable she found a certain course of action in a certain circumstance. Without batting an eyelid and in the kindest tone of voice, the preacher said 'My dear, you must stop your disobedience.... [u]stop your disobedience[/u].'

WOW! That double-negative in there (stop and dis-) did something to my understanding. Maybe I'm strange but I found it [i]very[/i] helpful... It changed my life and it still speaks to me. I still have plenty of overcoming to do....

 2005/10/3 20:57
dullrainbow
Member



Joined: 2005/8/10
Posts: 98
Iowa U.S.

 Re: Stop Sinning!

Quote:
If we are ever to be a true witness to a world stepped in sin, we need to come out of it and be something other than it if we are ever to prove this new life we live.


Amen and Amen
Oh that these words, the realization of them would aid in the cutting away the foreskin off our hearts to the shedding of blood!
Quote:
Am not advocating a self willed power to overcome ourselves, will get to that. We need the Holy Spirit to so fill our lives and control our actions that our obedience is automatic and without equivocation.


A.W. Tozer warns that this is serious holy business. We are not to tinker with our soul in this matter. God alone must do the work, and we must be determined in ourselves to seek just that.


Thank you Mike...you have spoke well for this woman.
Eileen


_________________
Eileen Teitsworth

 2005/10/3 21:13Profile









 Re:

The definition of "Sin" is 'to miss the mark'.

The "mark" is the "exact Image of Christ Himself".

As long as that is what we're talking about here, then I'm behind it all 100%.

And with Eileen on ~ "God alone must do the work, and we must be determined in ourselves to seek just that."


If "His Image" is our goal and nothing short of it, including 'first', the First Two Commandments, and looking to His Holy Spirit for it to be "all of Him and none of us" ... then I'm cool with these thoughts, as they say.

If we learn the meaning of "walk in the spirit", then we're well on our way ... but few teach it.
If we don't "walk in the spirit", then we are living the 'letter of the law' and Paul says, that is trusting in the flesh again.

Anything less than being taught to "walk in the spirit" is nothing more than Pharisaical jargon ... according to Paul.

And like trying to hold a beach ball under water in our own strength.
Can't do that forever.

And even though I'm far from perfect, everyone I've met down here in the Bible belt, thinks I'm a Legalist. Ha ! Now isn't that nuts.

 2005/10/3 22:22
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 You can and you must

Actually found that there where some items that may be buttressing the point here:

Blake

Quote:
I was just reinforcing his last statement and trying to get him to think a bit about the statement, "Stop Sinning".



GrannieAnnie
Quote:
I'm not thrilled with the "title" either, ( ), cuz it sort of scares the sensitive conscience people away and 'could' draw in the self-righteous, but there are ample Scriptures to prove both your points.



Both of these are a help to where I attempting to go and it may be in part an advocating to what you might call [i]a slow conversion[/i]. Cannot recall now who, might have been George Whitefield, or the Wesley's, do correct me here, but there was a time when preachers and others were not so quick to placing a stamp on salvation, where there was actual time spent in going through the scriptures to give a proper understanding of what this life entails. Times where the preaching could go on for days, leaving the hearers in the agony of their souls, left to ponder deeply the inward sin without giving any instant reprieve. In our day this would likely be considered cruelty and would wreck a thousand sales pitches to "accepting Jesus".

The reason being is as a counteracting against what is so prominent, that of jumping to the cure before the cause has been realized. Of course we mean well and we have compassion and something like this can cause the alarm to go off ... and it could be summed up in "you must give the balance" with certainty and had alluded to that, what I was driving at is ... [i]not now[/i], not yet.

The reason for bringing up just one area to begin with is the wondering if the foundation and ramifications were better understood [i]before hand[/i] the likelihood that we wouldn't have all this baggage and all these very questionable
salvations. Mark that, this is in no ones estimation, it is impossible to determine all the factors and would never pass judgment on any soul, it is always the same indictment; 2Co 13:5 [b]Examine yourselves[/b], whether ye be in the faith; [i]prove your own selves[/i]. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

"Count the cost"

Purposefully have stalled to try and get some kind of sanctified pondering in this world of instant everything. The greatest error and my own greatest fear is in mis-representing the Lord, a wrong view of who God is, the workings of the Holy Spirit as a [i]person[/i] who dwells in the hearts of believers. Have I arrived? Heavens no!
I never will in one sense and thank God for that.
Look at Paul after how many years? Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

The issue is one of jumping the gun. In the truest sense to jump the gun in a race is to take off out of the blocks before the sound and what happens when that happens? The runners all come back and start over, line up again and [i]wait[/i]. Somewhere along the line Christianity in large part jumped the line and never stopped running. And then the awards are given out even though the whole race is fraudulent.

Getting back on track here, in more ways than one there is an oxymoron that is more moronic then 'oxy' if we stopped to think about it.

Christian men who are addicted to pornography.
Christian men who beat their wives.
Christian men who cheat on their wives.
... who cheat, lie, drunkards,...

[i]Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. Know ye not that the unrighteous [b]shall not[/b] inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God[/i]. 1Co 6:7-10

There is nothing here sensitive at all and it is good to pause before moving on to verse 11. Why? Because in this day it is to dwell on the happy results, it is that which is being promoted right across the board. It's backward. "Accept Jesus as your personal Savior" not "Men and brethren, what shall we do?". Fully realize the difficulty in making this some kind of ipso facto type statement across the board. One of own here made a great point, believe it was Robert awhile back about making a determination of what is necessary at any given moment, not in catering to the whims of man but to the matter at hand, that which needs to be spoken or given in the moment and only the Holy Spirit can be relied on to make that determination. But He must first be indwelling and we must have some sort of surrender imperfect surely, but ongoing, daily, minute by minute or else we will be either aping conduct or reasoning out of our own devices. The surrender I am speaking about is our so called rights to ourselves, to our thinking, to anything that must be let go of. It is a full surrender and a full obedience and we do not arrive there by some construct of doctrine, nor of a legalistic mandate but by being brutally honest inwardly, in "[i]Spirit and Truth[/i]". To give the unconverted anything other than a sheer honesty is to do a clever dodge, a license to sin that is the rankest heresy and it is prevalent in this day.

Still feel like this has only begun to touch on the edges. [i]Rom 7:13 Then has that which is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through that which is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.[/i]

Th exceedingly sinfulness of sin.

One to dwell on in this whole realm of responsibility;

"I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected." 1Co 9:26,27

Who is doing the work here?



_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/10/4 11:09Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re: You can and you must

Quote:
The exceedingly sinfulness of sin.



Yes, I believe we have lost sight of this.


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2005/10/4 11:27Profile
bluinos
Member



Joined: 2005/2/4
Posts: 78


 Re: Stop Sinning!

It has all ministered to me, but this portion I would like to address.


Quote:

Purposefully have stalled to try and get some kind of sanctified pondering in this world of instant everything. The greatest error and my own greatest fear is in mis-representing the Lord, a wrong view of who God is, the workings of the Holy Spirit as a person who dwells in the hearts of believers. Have I arrived? Heavens no!
I never will in one sense and thank God for that.
Look at Paul after how many years? Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

The issue is one of jumping the gun. In the truest sense to jump the gun in a race is to take off out of the blocks before the sound and what happens when that happens? The runners all come back and start over, line up again and wait. Somewhere along the line Christianity in large part jumped the line and never stopped running. And then the awards are given out even though the whole race is fraudulent.

---

I live my life everyday not asking the Lord, if I were to die today would I go to heaven or to hell, No! but I ask myself if I knew, If I was told that my time was limited -- what would I do for the Lord, how would I live out my last days for him? How can he use me to be glorified, and how can he manifest himself through me to bring glory and honor to the father? All I can think of is surrender, by surrendering to him, and allowing him to mold me, and to make me.
Allowing him to start over, if him being the potter and me being the clay, somehow I do not turn
Out as he had intended, allowing him to start over. Perhaps as you stated going back to the starting line, and waiting on him.

I hear you “Brother” me too, many times I too fear mis-representing the Lord, so much so that many times I feel worthless or not good enough.

 2005/10/4 12:24Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: You can and you must

Dear Mike,

I understand what you are saying, or so I am trying. I have a few responses, hopefully taken all in good heart.

Paul says, "know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?"

What makes a man righteous? Are we made righteous by upholding the law, or by Jesus?

Only the righteous will enter Heaven. Additionally, we are made righteous by Christ. If we were once a drunkard before we were saved, we were cleansed by Christ after we were saved. Upon salvation, we are no longer sinners, we are righteous. We may sin, but we are not sinners.

Watchman Nee talks about this in the book, "A Normal Christian Life." I will share a quote with you later when I have time to dig it up.

Romans 7:13, I think may be better understood in a modern translation.

(NLT) But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my doom? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God's good commandment for its own evil purposes.

(NASB) Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Paul seems to be establishing the point that sin is given power by the law. Sin is made exceedingly sinful through commandment. If there were no laws, how should we be able to sin?

It seems to me that Paul is trying to show that the Law was good, but humans were bad. We could not live up to the law. If we read further in this scripture in Romans 7, we see Paul discusses this further.

(NLT) "14 The law is good, then. The trouble is not with the law but with me, because I am sold into slavery, with sin as my master. 15 I don't understand myself at all, for I really want to do what is right, but I don't do it. Instead, I do the very thing I hate. 16 I know perfectly well that what I am doing is wrong, and my bad conscience shows that I agree that the law is good. 17 But I can't help myself, because it is sin inside me that makes me do these evil things. 18 I know I am rotten through and through so far as my old sinful nature is concerned. No matter which way I turn, I can't make myself do right. I want to, but I can't. 19 When I want to do good, I don't. And when I try not to do wrong, I do it anyway. 20 But if I am doing what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing it; the sin within me is doing it. 21 It seems to be a fact of life that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God's law with all my heart. 23 But there is another law at work within me that is at war with my mind. This law wins the fight and makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin?"

Paul is building an argument for Jesus Christ. He is trying to show that we need Jesus to overcome sin because we are too weak. The law conflicts with us. And thus, we need Jesus to set us free from the law.

Quote:
"I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected." 1Co 9:26,27

Who is doing the work here?



Indeed, in this scripture Paul is doing the work. However, why so? If we look at the beginning of the chapter, we discover that Paul is defending his authority as an apostle over the Church.

I agree with you that people need to stop sinning. Sin hurts not only the person sinning and God, but everyone. We are all effected by the tragedies of sin.

And it seems that it is a relatively simple matter. Just stop. Just stop sinning. It's that simple. It seems that simple. But let me ask, are you without sin?

If it were really that easy to stop sinning, then we would all be perfect. However, it's not. As Paul outlined in the above scriptures, our flesh conflicts with the law. To not sin is not natural.

The thing is, when people hear such a commandment, "Stop Sinning" they begin to think, "Yeah, that's it, I just need to stop sinning. It's that simple. That's all I have to do is stop."

Then they go home, try to stop, and discover that they cannot stop. They are weak. It seems the more they try to stop, the more they fail. They become so focused on thier sin that they lose thier focus on Christ. Next thing you know, they are overcome by guilt and they feel defeated. And then, they begin to question thier salvation and wonder what happened?

This is a strategy the Devil uses to get a foothold on good Christians. First, he breaks us down and gets us to commit a sin. Then, when we find that we are weak and can't stop sinning, he uses this as an opportunity to shatter our faith.

We should not let the Devil get a stronghold on us. We should always answer sin in the same way, with the blood of Jesus Christ. We should always recognize our need for Christ. We need God's grace. We need Jesus.

In Matthew 5:3 (KJ) Jesus says, "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

I believe the first step in conquering sin comes from making a choice. The choice we have to make is: are you willing to give it to Jesus? Once we make that decision, once we decide to give our sin(s) to Jesus, He can then take them to the cross.

Although, Jesus said it best as Eli pointed out:

Matthew 4:17 - (NLT)
From then on, Jesus began to preach, "Turn from your sins and turn to God, because the Kingdom of Heaven is near. "

In Christ,

Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2005/10/4 15:49Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Speed

Hi Blake,

With all due respect you are still making the point for me, will get there, it is part of what this is all leading up to. You might say it's still in the diagnostic state and part of the reason for drawing the attention towards for instance the problems with pornography as just illustrative of the mentality of many that are naming the name of Christ as their [i]Lord[/i]. There is good reason why Jesus stated in that repetitave manner about those who would call out to Him in that fashion.

This might be of some help if it needs to be addressed at this juncture:

[i]The nation of Israel had sinned and the consequence of their sin was a plague of fiery venomous snakes. The context is so important that I will give the whole section here;

[b]And Jehovah sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. And the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, because we have spoken against Jehovah, and against thee; pray unto Jehovah, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and set it upon the standard: and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked unto the serpent of brass, he lived. (Num 21:6-9
ASV)[/b]

These people are not just sick or inconvenienced, they are dying and they know it. They also know why they are dying “we have sinned”. Conviction of sin is a work of God’s Spirit. They had not been persuaded of the facts of the case by an evangelist they knew it. In fact, they took the initiative, they came to Moses. This is much more like New Testament evangelism [u]where the appeal comes from the congregation rather than the preacher[/u]. They are desperate in their plea; this sounds much more like those old ‘after meetings’ too.[/i] {underlines mine}

The full context here: [url=http://www.mybiblebase.com/pdfs/RonBailey/ReceivingChrist.pdf]RECEIVING CHRIST[/url] With thanks to our good friend for a very fair treatment of the subject.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/10/4 16:46Profile





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