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Rednosepit
Member



Joined: 2005/5/17
Posts: 13
Santa Rosa, California

 Is this Biblical?

Blessings and Grace,

I was listening to a preacher and heard him say that he told his pastor he would give his life for him and not only encouraged us to do the same but said it was Biblical. He used King Davids men and how they gave their life for him to legitimize his statement.

I havent gotten the chance to study this in depth as of yet but I was hoping to get some feedback from my Brothers and Sisters from SI.

Does this sound a little cultish or am I looking at this wrong?

In Christ,

Rednosepit
1Tim.1:15


_________________
Daniel

 2005/9/30 13:38Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Is this Biblical?

Quote:
I was listening to a preacher and heard him say that he told his pastor he would give his life for him and not only encouraged us to do the same but said it was Biblical. He used King Davids men and how they gave their life for him to legitimize his statement.



There may be a pastor, that as a friend, you could sincerely say this for. Unless there is an immediate threat of danger I don't know why you would have to vocally pledge your life in such a dramatic way. Was this preacher from a dangerous or persecuted part of the world?

One can only imagine that the guy you heard is unmarried and didn't have to consult a wife before making such a vow...

I do think that to make this declaration, which singles pastors as more deserving then the other brethren, is cultish in it's unilateral pledge to authority. I never thought of my pastor as my king.

Novel topic...

"Greater love hath no man..."

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/9/30 13:53Profile
Conqueror
Member



Joined: 2005/9/8
Posts: 71


 Re: Is this Biblical?

We should be ready to give up our lives for each other...its the extreme maybe of "consider others better than yourself"....

The story he is talking about is the story of David's Mighty Men. David had 30 men wholly devoted to him. Awesome men, mighty in battle, champions and totally devoted to David. Among them were men who could slay hundreds of men by themselves with a single spear.

The story also tells of three of the mighty men who found out that David wished for water from a well that was behind enemy lines. These three men broke through the enemy lines to fetch David that water. They brought it back to him and David poured it on the ground because he felt too unworthy of such devotion.

If anything this type of devotion speaks of what our devotion should be like to our TRUE King, Jesus Christ. I think it tells of the type of people we should be....might in power, strength, devotion and passion and all of it should be directed toward Christ. Ready to bust through enemy lines just to bring pleasure our Lord.

I DO NOT believe this devotion can be given to anyone but God... If it would be given to someone in addition to God I believe it would be to a mans wife....but not to that degree.

 2005/9/30 14:41Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.”
(1John 3:16, KJVS)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/9/30 14:45Profile
LetUsPray
Member



Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173


 Re: Is this Biblical?

No, I agree with all the above. This can hardly be called Biblical. The only time when people laid down for others with respect to God, and I believe that is all we could be asked to do, is when Moses asked God to have his name taken out of His book, so that God would forgive and not destroy the Israelites. God answered Moses that only He would make that decision. But Moses certainly laid down his life in this case.

The only other verse that comes to mind is:
Eph.5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

Again, this would be as an act of obedience to Christ and this is not to be taken lightly.


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Hans Prang

 2005/9/30 14:54Profile
Rednosepit
Member



Joined: 2005/5/17
Posts: 13
Santa Rosa, California

 Re:

Conqueror,

Thank you for bringing some clarity and light to my question. I was thinking the same. I believe the story of David and his mighty men are a "type" to show what our devotion and loyalty to Christ the King should be.

But to a man...I love my pastor and I believe giving honor and respect to him and his office. I believe God placed him as a watchman over my soul and I will lock arms with him to accomplish what God has called us, as a ministry, to do.

In saying that I do believe that kind of devotion (pledging ones life) is reserved strictly to Christ Himself.

Rednosepit


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Daniel

 2005/9/30 14:57Profile
Conqueror
Member



Joined: 2005/9/8
Posts: 71


 Re:

Quote:
But to a man...I love my pastor and I believe giving honor and respect to him and his office. I believe God placed him as a watchman over my soul and I will lock arms with him to accomplish what God has called us, as a ministry, to do.



Same here. I love my pastor as well. And I do believe God does place men that we should put ourselves to a 'limited' authority under...butI can tell you one thing though, if one of his congregation stood up and swore total devotion or 'fealty' to him... He would probably flip out and set that person straight. :)

 2005/9/30 15:10Profile
rocklife
Member



Joined: 2004/4/1
Posts: 323
usa

 Re: Is this Biblical?

Jesus says no greater love than a man to give his life for his friend.

To encourage people to do such a thing should only be in line with Jesus and His will.

We do need to be careful about lip service and encouraging promises out of people they don't really mean (a pastor preaching for people to show some public commitment to do this may be just in vain, if they really love him, they will do it in real life as needed, not just talk about it.)


_________________
Jina

 2005/9/30 16:49Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Submision: love or being controlled

There is a big difference between submitting yourself, ie yielding your rights for the well-being of another (love), and submitting yourself to someone who wishes to have control and domination over you.

There must be proper boundaries in all relationships, and when these boundaries are violated, much harm is done. Inappropriate submission is not LOVE. It is selling yourself to another and giving him/her power over you that is unlawful - spritually speaking.

You should respect your pastor's authority when it comes to the practical function of the church, but he cannot control your freedom to hear from God. He cannot be your hightest conscience, or usurp your will.

You haven't shared what it is exactly that this pastor is asking of you. Why not ask him to be specific about his expectations? That should help you understand where he is at. It may be necessary to define your boundaries with him - ie share what you are free do for him, and what you cannot (with a right conscience).

He should appreciate your concerns and your questions. If he is threatened by your asking, then you will know that he is out of line. It is better to know where you stand - preferably as soon as possible.

Above all, seek the Chief Shepherd for guidance. This challenge is a wonderful opportunity to grow in your own faith, and it may be a wonderful way to build a relationship of trust with your pastor.

God will help you.
Diane




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Diane

 2005/9/30 19:52Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

The preacher is another person. We should be willing to die for people regardless of who they are. A preacher is no more deserving of being pulled from a burning building than a small child. However, if we sell our house and move into and apartment so that the preacher can have a Cadillac, something is wrong. The preacher is God's messenger to the people, and the people's messenger to God, but he is not lord over God's heritage (1 Peter 5:3).

He deserves the respect of his office, but like Moses, he can stumble. He needs our support, our prayers, and our respect. While he is God's man, he is just a man. Putting him on a pedastal may leave people more disappointed than anything else.


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Hal Bachman

 2005/10/1 11:03Profile





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