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luckyd
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Joined: 2005/6/1
Posts: 71
tx

 god would rather have an unbeliever who follows his commands?

im not sure if i saw this in the bible but i think i saw something once where it said god would rather have an unbeliever who followed his commands than a believer who doesnt. if this is not in the bible then what would u all say? what do u think of someone who follows his commands but someone who never follows his commands?


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jesse

 2005/9/28 20:10Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re: god would rather have an unbeliever who follows his commands?

Maybe I can help. I don't know if this is what you are referring to, but this is the closest I can think of.


Romans 2:
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. [u]13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.[/u] 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

This passage is just setting up the fact that ALL men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It is saying that the Law of Moses does not justify a person in God's eyes. All are condemned through the law AND if they do not have the law, they still natually do things required by the law and they become a law for themselves. The law condemns...not justifies. He was speaking to the Jews, who have the law, who view the law as righteousness. Paul is saying that Jews are not except from the judgement of God.

The bible makes it perfectly clear that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through him. God is not pleased with a lost person living a good life, if that were so then Christ died in vain...which we know he did not!

Hope this helps and doesn't add more confusion. Maybe someone else can pick up on where I need some more emphasis.

God Bless.

 2005/9/28 21:27Profile
all4Christ
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Joined: 2005/8/28
Posts: 25


 Re: god would rather have an unbeliever who follows his commands?

Hello, friend!
Some verses came to mind, when I read your thread. I believe more of us need to ask ourselves this question (among Christianity) and search Scripture and find out the truth because I believe many have a false hope that they are saved because they're keeping His commandments and then others have a false hope because they don't think that it's a very serious matter if they don't keep His commandments.

"But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our rightousnesses are like filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6a)

"...they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:2-4)

"So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:8 and the verses around it.)

(Hebrews 5-10)
"...without the shedding of blood there is no remission. (9:22b)
...But Christ came as High Priest of teh good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Heb. 9:11-14).

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

"But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?
Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like:
He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.
But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great." (Luke 6:46-49)

("But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave me commandment, so I do." John 14:31).

"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me." (John 14:21)

"Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.
And you shall love the LORD your God with all you heart, with all you soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment.
And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:29-31)

(I John)

These are some verses that came to mind. :o)


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Ruth Anna

 2005/9/28 22:36Profile
RandyJ
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Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re: god would rather have an unbeliever who follows his commands?

Hello there! Glad to be here talking about the good things of the Lord. Is there such thing as a person who keeps the commandments of the Lord who does not believe? Does not believe what? How about the first commandment "Love the Lord". The Lord who you don't believe in? I do follow the thought presented that God would rather have obedience than belief. I say that God would probably rather have obedience than belief however I do think that obedience implies belief. And if we are speaking of belief in Christ than I would have a scripture in mind that could shed some light on the subject.
"There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. 3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do. 7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; 8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, "Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. 17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come? 22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. 23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. 25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. 26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. 27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together. 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me? 30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God. 32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee. 33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:1-35
First of all his prayers were answered.
" If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me" Psalm 66:18
Yet there is the necessity of belief in Christ for salvation because God sent Peter to Preach the gospel to them and they were "saved".


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Randy Steinke

 2005/10/1 1:06Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: god would rather have an unbeliever who follows his commands?

Quote:
im not sure if i saw this in the bible but i think i saw something once where it said god would rather have an unbeliever who followed his commands than a believer who doesnt.


wouldn't that make the 'unbeliever' a 'believer'? Obedience and faith are the opposite sides of the same coin. Faith is right response to revelation. If I respond rightly that is 'faith/obedience'. and that 'right response' makes me a 'believing person' in that particular revelation of God.

That doesn't mean that I am a 'Christian' but then there is no real Bible definition of the word 'Christian' and you will get a different definition from everyone who tries to answer the question 'what is a Christian?' If we stick to your language of 'believers' and 'non-believers', a 'believer is one who is 'obeying/believing' God, and a non-believer is someone who is not 'obeying/believing' God. Believing, of course, is a process and not just a crisis.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/10/1 5:16Profile





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