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baruch_48
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Joined: 2005/5/31
Posts: 78


 You've Been Lied To

[b]Life. Liberty. Pursuing your happiness.[/b]


These words sound neat- even liberating - to human ears.


[b][u]There is a way that seems right to a man[/u][/b], but in the end, it leads to death. [i]Prov 16:25[/i]


Can I rephrase that ?


There is a Way // Humanist doctrine that seems right to a people - but in the end - it leads to Laodecia.


Think about Laodecia - and its values. You know the scripture - I won’t quote it [ 3:17]


Can we have [size=x-small]LAODECIA TODAY[/size] - without the human-centered doctrine of ‘we have A RIGHT TO Life, Liberty and Pursuit of human happiness’ ?


Humans are so religious ... they’ll even pursue happiness in man-made ‘Religion’. Is there a better way of describing the Laodecians, in their
lukewarmness --- than ‘[u]happy[/u] in their comfortable religious forms emanating in Man, but not God’ ?


[i][size=medium]What’s the point, then ?[/size][/i]



Can non-Laodecian disciples live without [u]“life”[/u] ( i no longer live ~ [b]Gal.
2:20[/b] ) - [u]“human liberty”[/u] ( [b]john 8:36 - 2 Cor 3:17[/b] ) - and [u]"pursuing happiness”[/u]( [b]Luke 9:23-25, 14:26b -- Phil 3:8-10 -- Gal 6:14[/b] ) [size=large]?[/size]



Can the Church under harsh Communist oppression in China flourish without these vaunted [b]Western-Laodecian RIGHTS[/b]?


Sure they can. Read up on the history of 20th Century growth in His Church in China [i]after[/i] the Communist takeover in ‘49.



We’ve been lied to, my friends ...



We don’t [b][size=medium]need[/size][/b] rights



[u][size=medium]Christ laid His down [ john 19:10 / phil 2:6 - 9 ] - to do the Work of The Father - why do we
clutch and clamor over
ours ?[/size][/u]



[i]Why do we think we’re doing a service in God’s name - by fighting democratically/constitutionally - for ‘our rights’ ?[/i]


[b]Do we realize democracy is of pagan Greece - not Jerusalem?[/b]

[i]How little we know our own paganness -- as
“Constitutional” Christians, playing the harlot with words written unwittingly to pave the Laodecian [b][u]Broad Path[/u][/b] ( Happy Path )
to destruction.[/i]


[i]How little we see of the [b]heavenly[/b] City - Jerusalem [u][size=medium]Above[/size][/u] - when our eyes are fixed on [u]Washington, London[/u] - or whichever pagan house [b]warmed over[/b] by a small [u][b]dab[/u][/b] of ‘christianity’.[/i]



[b][size=x-small]How ingenious[/size][/b] [u]our Adversary[/u] [b]is -- insinuating his desires[/b] to keep man ensnared in his sin - by [u]insinuating to him the idolatry[/u] of [i][b]freedoms to[/b][/i] sin ...


.... within the [size=medium]Western-Laodecian[/size] mix.



( Is there anything more definitive than the country of America, for instance, being a country [b]‘free to sin’[/b] - and vaunting Its Freedoms to export, for gain -- its [b]“sin culture”[/b] around the globe ? )



[b][i][size=x-small]when human freedom is unleashed[/size][/i][/b] - [u]sin is unleashed[/u] - or do we not yet know this?



[size=medium][b]W[/b][/size]hy does the Gospel flourish today in areas of the
planet [u][b]without[/u] [i]the chains[/b] of Political Freedom[/i] [size=large]?[/size] . .
compared to the Gospel ‘move’ in the Cultural West, where we are free ? ( [b]yes, I said chains[/b] )



[i][size=small][u][b]Is there a correlation[/b][/u][/size] between our “Glorious Rights” guaranteed us by a [b]piece of parchment[/b] ( God did not write any modern human constitution, no matter what we’ve been told on this by the Adversary and his powers & principalities in the heavenly places ---[/i]
[b][i][size=medium]Satan loves[/size][/b] that we think God ‘guarantees’ our rights to happiness )[/i]



[size=small][i]-- these glorious “rights” & our Laodecian languishing, today in the West - any [u]correlation[/u][/i][/size] ???



[i]were First Century hearts free, living under the Roman oppressive yoke ?[/i]



How many hearts aren’t free in the modern West,
today as we’re [b]constitutionally free[/b] [i]to enslave[/i] ourselves . . .





Do we see the meaning of Paul’s declaration:
“[b][u][i]But[/i][/u][/b], our citizenship is in heaven “ . . ?



why the “but” ? if it is but not [u][b][size=medium]to contrast with [/size][/b][/u] the [u]heart-fixedness[/u] of many that name the name of Christ - upon [u]earthly matters[/u] ( "civilian affairs" - 2 tim. 2:4) . . .



Why aren’t our hearts [b]there[/b] ( in heavenly places ) ?



Why are we [b]palpitating politically[/b] over [u]human[/u] “rights” .. as though Christ enjoined us to [u]this battle: [i]Today[/i][/u] [ heb 4:7 [i]today if you hear His voice[/i]. . harden not - on the political . .]



[size=medium]Christ saw[/size] Roman oppression whereever He turned . . and so did the apostles.


They palpitated [b][u][size=large]not[/size] to[/u][/b] "work the [b]System[/b]" - to change the "[b]Order[/b]" of things on earth. [ [i]My kingdom is not of this World, my friends . .[/i] ]


why are we so [b][i][size=x-small]worldly[/size][/i][/b], then ?




why do we sweat to see [u]'Religious Men'[/u] seek & take office in the land . . in the World, whereever we are . .



has there ever been a time in the West, since the
fourth century, when western political men [u]did not[/u] [b][i][size=x-large]use[/size][/i][/b] [size=medium]‘the NAME’[/size] ---- in furtherance of their earthly ambition, however well-disguised with apt piousness . . .



what a jejune picture this is, then -


And we play the harlot with this world System [b][size=x-large]![/size][/b]




[b]. . Would not the apostle Paul question us . .[/b] if he could be transported to our modern evangelical "Political" [b]age[/b] -- and say unto us :[u]“ Are you not acting like '[i]mere men[/i] ?”[/u]



The worldly -- and the christian laodecians -ought [b][i][size=x-small]sweat and strive[/size][/i][/b] for [b]worldly rights[/b] - panting after every article of news emanating from the halls of the american capitol or london’s westminster ~ [i]for[/i] [size=medium][b][i][u]they have[/u] no KINGDOM ABOVE . .[/i][/b][/size]



The one whose [b]mind is set[/b] on [i]the heavenly[/i] [size=large]K[/size]ingdom has forfeited these [i][u]high places[/u][/i] ( lev 26:30, num 33:52 ), when he has enlisted in the King's Army . [ 2 tim 2:4]


[b]---[/b] he no longer “warfares” with carnal weaponry [ 2 cor. 6:7, 10:4] --


he battles not for rights ...


he battles to put himself & [b]his own life[/b] on that very [b]Altar --- not the High Places of human political carnality --[/b] but on that Cross to which His Lord bids him [b]come[/b] . . . .


[b][size=x-small]___[/size][/b]


[i][size=x-small]by the rivers of political babylon, the Spirit is weeping Today ; the Spirit and the Bride say 'come' .. [/size][/i]

 2005/9/26 1:43Profile









 Re: You've Been Lied To

Quote:
the Spirit and the Bride say "come" . .

the Spirit and the Bride say "come" . .

Amen.

Just for the record, Westminster started drifting away more and more in 1967. We're well on the way to all religions being practised with equal 'right', to Christianity, including secular ones. As you say bro, " a country ‘free to sin’ "

 2005/9/26 3:58
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: You've Been Lied To

bro
you know the more i walk with God the more i realize that a great many people are going to be very disappointed on that day of judgement. the word says "for many in that day..."

i feel the lack of kingdom-mindedness all around me and a sense that everything as it is now is about to be destroyed and for those who aren't rooted in God, that judgement shall surely sweep them away.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/9/28 20:43Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re: You've Been Lied To

Amen baruch_48 and IRONMAN- I agree 100%

“Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” is a Satanic lie. Satan wants every man earth to pursue his own happiness. This is called humanism.

America (and much of its western counterparts) is based on humanism, selfishness, pride and greed. This (humanism, pride, selfishness and greed) is the life blood of democratic, capitalistic America. If you take humanism, selfishness, pride and greed out of America the entire country and it's economic and political systems come to a screeching halt. Humanism, selfishness, pride and greed are the oil and gas that keep the satanic machine called America running. Humanism, selfishness, pride and greed is the blood that keeps the heart of America pumping.

The Great Prostitute, the mother of all whores. Could you write a more accurate description of America today then described in Revelation 18? A Laodecian apostate church and the consumers of the earth. America = religious, political and economic “Babylon the Great” all rolled into one. I know many don’t want to admit it, but is there really anyone left who does not believe that America is the mother of all whores and the Great Prostitute talked about in Revelation?


Thanks for the post baruch_48 your assessment of things is right on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Revelation 18
Babylon Is Fallen
1After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3"For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality."
4I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
6"Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her.
7"To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.'
8"For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
Lament for Babylon
9"And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning,
10standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'
11"And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--
12cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,
13and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives.
14"The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.
15"The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;
17for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!' And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance,
18and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?'
19"And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!'
20"Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her."
21Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22"And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/9/28 23:21Profile









 Re:

Wow, y'all are brave.


Revelations 18 and every other future tense prophecy concerning Babylon, from Jer, Is, and other O.T. prophets ... if fed into some sort of computer ... can only come out to one locale, that fits every single perimeter in prophecy.


You got it Patrick, even without the super computer feed.


Oh my, Woe is US. :-o

 2005/9/28 23:45
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Baruch 48, Preach it Brother!
Ironman, I always assumed Babylon was Roman Catholism, and the "harlots" she mothered were the protestant denominations. Not very P.C. but when I hear "Christian" radio and preachers from the pulpit praising republican party line as if it were from God, I get a very uneasy feeling about the "Church".

 2005/9/29 5:46Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: questions

Quote:
America (and much of its western counterparts) is based on humanism, selfishness, pride and greed. This (humanism, pride, selfishness and greed) is the life blood of democratic, capitalistic America. If you take humanism, selfishness, pride and greed out of America the entire country and it's economic and political systems come to a screeching halt. Humanism, selfishness, pride and greed are the oil and gas that keep the satanic machine called America running. Humanism, selfishness, pride and greed is the blood that keeps the heart of America pumping.



America is unique in this aspect? I think you pretty much described mankind here. Seriously...it may be impossible to truly appreciate the evil, the atrocities and the suffering that is really going on in this world because of various political and religous systems. For instance, rent the documentary [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000C825I/qid=1128010367/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9653798-9015818?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846]War Photographer[/url] and spend 20 minutes with it's scenes of famine, persecution, war, and hatred from around the planet. Your mind and heart will go numb.

Quote:
is there really anyone left who does not believe that America is the mother of all whores and the Great Prostitute talked about in Revelation?



This is a strange message for the American church ...if America is the revival of Babylon in Revelation...then why preach repentance? Can prophecy be broken?

Why not pray for the annihilation of America? Wouldn't that be praying according to God's will? If America is the great harlot, we should not weep with those merchants...we should rejoice over her destruction.

I'm not "defending" any ideology...just asking some questions.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/9/29 12:07Profile
LetUsPray
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Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173


 Re: You've Been Lied To

Carefully read Revelation 17 and 18. When you compare the description of the two, are they the same? The Babylon of Revelation 17 is drunken with the blood of the saints. She sits on the beast. If one wants to make a comparison with the revived Roman empire and the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, this Babylon cannot be America. Look at the description of the adornment in 17:4 and compare that with the adornment of the various officials of a certain church, who killed ten of thousands who wanted to know God for themselves throughout the ages.

Now look at the Babylon in Revelation 18. It is hard to imagine that the merchants of the world will mourn over Babylon of Rev 17, but they certainly mourn over the Babylon of Revelation 18. Revelation 18 describes a powerful nation that will be destroyed, with who the entire world traded. That is not the Babylon of Revelation 17, which killed the saints.

Just consider the possibility. Revelation is not an easy book, but there are things written in it that we can glean from.

The bottom line is: REPENT, REPENT, and REPENT. Return to your first love, Jesus Christ!


_________________
Hans Prang

 2005/9/29 13:30Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Jimbob
i believe babylon to be the world system as it is, being self-sufficient and not needing God and trying to push Him out of everything. the whore of babylon which rides on the beast with 7 heads and is drunk from the blood of the saints i believe to be the catholic church as per Rev 17

the bottom line is this, the hour is late and we have no time to spend arguing about this and that at the expense of repentance. we need to be in prayer, fasting, on our hands and knees confessing our sins before God and repenting, repenting, repenting.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/9/29 14:15Profile
jimbob
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Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

First off I'd like to ammend my previous statement about protestant denominations being the whores of babylon, I meant to say APOSTATE protestant denominations. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water!
The Bible describes apostate Israel as a harlot, I believe Revelation describes an apostate church as the harlot.We are told to "Come out of her my people so that you will not participate in her sins.."(Rev 18:4)
I believe the beast is the world system and the mark of the beast is to think like the world(a mark on the forehead) and to work for the world (a mark on the hand).

 2005/9/29 14:29Profile





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