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moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: obedience

Ginnyrose,

yes, I agree.

I can use my own life once again as an example. Some of you read recently about my husband's affair this year. I can tell you that it is one long process of "not my will, but Thy will be done". I mean, of course there was the initial dying to self and the forgiveness, etc... but as time goes on there is still so much more that I need to die to every day.

It would be so easy to use excuses for harsh tones and uncaring behavior. I mean, I have every right to treat my husband a little badly once in awhile after what he did to me, right? NO. It is so easy to say to myself "I deserve" a little something for what he put me through.

I have to fight my flesh that wants to bring old things back up- because "I can". I choose to renew my mind. I choose to obey the Lord.

Of course, I have failed a time or two. Sometimes my flesh gets the best of me and I let self pity get to me and then it's all down hill from there for half the day. But I am the one that chose to sit there and let my mind wander back to "it's not fair", "how could he", I don't deserve". But it's sin and it's wrong and it only makes matters much worse for myself and my family.

If I would have taken the counsel of most friends and family members, I would never be where I am now with this. They want to let me off the hook, let me have some lee-way. Give me excuses to do what I want, to listen to my feelings, to let me be persuaded by my feelings. That is why I let God and His word be my counselor. He is sufficient for all counsel.

The Lord knows I was hurt. I know He cares. But I also know that He says HE is enough for me. That I am to put my trust in HIM and He will take care of me. I can't put my trust in my feelings or my unmet needs.

I am responsible for me. For my behavior and my obedience. I am not responsible for my husband's. I am not responsible for my parent's behavior/obedience or lack of it. I am responsible for me.

And like you said, Ginny, I will stand one day before the judgement seat and be held accountable for ME.

In Him, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2005/9/25 17:55Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: more from E.E.

Here is some more from Elisabeth Elliot's "Discipline:The Glad Surrender". This is from the chapter on 'The Discipline of the Mind'.


"A renewed mind has an utterly changed conception, not one of reality, but of possibility. A turn away form the kingdom of this world to the kingdom of God provides a whole set of values basd not on the human word, but on Christ's. Impossibilities become possibilities.

The worldly mind says, "Look, I am human. Don't expect me to love that woman, not after what she did to my family. It's impossible."

The word of Christ is, "Love your enemies. Do good to them that hate you." This is indeed impossible, as it was impossible for Peter to walk on the sea, until he obeyed the command. The mind made over from within begins to think Christ's thoughts after Him.

The natural mind prefers argument to obedience, solutions to truth. It's immediate response, when the truth is presented, is no. No way. It refuses to be nailed by the truth.

The disciple who means to compel every one of his thoughts to surrender in obedience to Christ would do well to test himself by asking:

Whose glory do I seek?
Is this for or against the knowledge of God?
Is it more important to me to understand than to obey?
Is it more important to to me to know that to believe?
Do I reject a particular truth because it will inconvenience me?"

-E.Elliot


_________________
Chanin

 2005/9/25 17:59Profile









 Re: What kind of Counsel?

Quote:
Not sure I am making any sense whatsoever here, perhaps thats where the whole exercise elsewhere was heading, that of prayerlessness and of silence, of listening and truly hearing ... if there is any goal in it at all it would be to just to get us praying.

Mike, you are and you aren't. The thing that's dawned on me since my last post to you, is what I'm [i]not[/i] saying. You are better at saying everything right through to the end - the builder in you finishes the job - whereas I am a dreamer/designer by comparison and I have the end in sight - in my mind's eye. Well, [i]that's[/i] no use to you, the reader....

Quote:
Think we are both touching on different aspects

I've known [u]all along[/u] you are talking about getting into [i]silence[/i] with God. That is, into [i]prayerful[/i] silence. (I don't mean noisy with prayers offered, but into silent communion and whatever it leads to in His presence). Sorry I didn't make this clear.

Maybe you know everything I've brought to the fore here, but, you didn't say that you do, which is why I [i]am[/i] saying it (again). In summary, my suggestions are 1) praise and worship 2) praying aloud 3) avoiding denial of the obstacles.

Quote:
1 Co 9:26, 27 on the one hand that may be applicable here, applying it to this "being still"

Let me say clearly, I accept this point; but let me also say, there are times when the [i]trying[/i] involved in this exercise, is counter-productive, in that it becomes an end in itself and takes on a life of its own. That's why I was suggesting to change tactic. The enemy hates a resourceful pray-er, because normally us humans are so predictable just exactly because of what you said earlier about thinking we 'know' what God thinks about things.

Therefore, to expand a little on that and the possibility of denial (of a genuine or legitimate obstacle), there is a simple solution. Simply, one prefaces one's offering to the Lord with the invitation to Him to show one how one is wrong. That's what I call an 'outmanoeuvre' of the enemy; you've taken the ground from his feet, then. The same goes for obstacles. By properly considering them, the Lord will soon show another layer of understanding, if one is open to receive it.

This may seem like a very long way round, but it's much more a matter of developing a strategy than [i]time-wasting[/i], for as long as we do not understand ourselves, we are vulnerable. The sooner we can recognise and pigeonhole (turn away from) the distractions, the sooner we are in the Lord's presence more consciously.

The thing I had not said is, I see these approaches as possible [u]entrances to the silence[/u]. Perhaps several or all are necessary sometimes. As one connects with His presence in a deeper way through these honest prayers and praises, the silence breaks in all by itself and one is suddenly [i]out of touch[/i] with the world of thought and effort. There is a challenge to stay there if one is conscious of the transition, but, that's a further discipline I'm learning.

Now you thought you might not have been making sense. Have I made a little [i]more[/i] sense, this time?

Of Jacob, you said 'hanging on'. I'd say 'I will not' (let thee go) does it for me. It reminds me of the years (and still occasionally) when I regularly (that is, all the time!) prayed to be delivered from myself. I knew there was no escape to God, if I took myself with me. Ha! ;-)

 2005/9/25 20:37
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Living testimonies

Thank you Chanin, Ginnyrose.

Quote:
I look back now on my life as a child and young person and I wouldn't change anything. I am who I am today because of my hardships, because I've let God use these things for His good. I can understand people when they feel rejection and I know why they do the things they do. I am drawn to them- to want to help them and bring Truth to them.



Would concur wholeheartedly.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/9/26 0:57Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

Chanin,

Your testimony ought to be distributed far and wide.

When we recognize that I, only me am responcible for my own sin[s], that God will only hold me accountable for me it will make all the difference in the world in how I view life and my difficulties.

Jesus died for ME, and expects ME to bring MY sins to the cross and find redemption there for ME. I can not do it for another, much as I would like. To soft pedal my sin[s] or anyone else's for that matter will never help anyone. If you want to experiemce deliverance you must take charge of your own life, surrender it to Jesus and then you will get the deliverance you so earnestly desire.

Chanin, you said it so beautifully. God bless you, my dear. With your attitude, I think you will make it because Jesus is there to render you assistance...after all He is more interested in you then you are..Is this not awesome? we serve a wonderful God, do we not?!

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2005/9/26 2:30Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

I think I am going to have to buy this book. E. Elliot says it like it is. I love it!

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2005/9/26 2:33Profile









 Re: Tozer once said.....

..."God crucifies without pity, those whom He wishes to raise without measure".

There is not greater submission than to go willingly to the cross. Jesus did it for us, and welcomes us to take the step of faith and put an end to our life being directed by the apetites of our flesh.

The flesh wants to build it's own security system, it's own independent wealth. God alone has true riches, if only we'd let go, if only we'd summit ourselves to His will, direction, and purpose for our life.

I'm so called to just lay what little I have left down and pursue giving my life up for my fellow man. I'm torn between aiding brother Troy in New Orleans or going to southern Mexico and teaching in a missionary training school. My worst deficiency is GOING. I haven't left yet. I'm holding on to the life of a worldly king when I am called to be child of the Heavenly king.

It is soooooo difficult to break out of the mold. It is soooo difficult to stop procrastinating. It is soooo difficult to get out of the boat and run across the water to Jesus. Oh God help us all.

It is truly time to stop talking about God and to start being like Jesus. I know and you know that is where real abundant life is. God gets so sick of us and our own kingdoms that He allows hurricanes and tornados, earth quakes and fires to come uppn us and burn up our hay and stubble. He places us in such desperate circumstances that we have no where and nothing to turn too execpt Him. Oh what a blessed place to be. No where to turn too, but the cross. Jesus was stipped of His garments, all worldly acclaim. Will you submit to such humiliation and shame for His sake? Will I? I must. I simply must, even if it kills me. I simply must. Why? Because I want what is beyond the cross, eternal life. That is the one thing, I simply must have, eternal life with God. I want to honor Him with my obedience. I want to be loved by my Heavenly Father, and I want Jesus to manifest Himself to me, according to His Word (John 14:21)

Jesus made it ever so clear, "keep my commandments". Are these the written law? Indeed they are. But are they not also the law that guides us day by day when He wooos us into serving our fellow man instead of seeking position and power over him or her?

Jesus came to serve. It is impossible to be like Him and not serve somebody. It's impossible to be obedient to His voice and not become a servant. He said, "no greater love hath a man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend". Our lives must be invested in others, their physical and spiritual welfare. There is so much more to being a christian, than just talking about it. We must come to a place of being, not just believing. If there is life, something must be growing. Growing in God is growing in love, loving our neighbor as ourselves.

I simply must do something very radical very soon. I'm so sick of me I could scream. I'm so lazy I'm not worth the price of a bullet to put me out of my misery. Thank God, it's not over yet. There is still precious little time to submit, surrender, to go to the cross and die, that I might live.
Paul said that if we have been crucified with Christ, we shall also reign with Him. We don't have to wait to reign with Him. I said we don't have to wait on the next life to reign with Him. We can begin now, in this life, by dying to self, and finding some one some where to love as we would love ourselves.

Are there hurting people in this world? Indeed there are, and so precious few good samaritans to bind their wounds and broken hearts. Oh there are plenty who would say "be filled", or "be warm". But how few there are who would offer up what they have stored for themselves to relieve the sufering and pain of another.

Jesus is coming back, to judge the nations as a Shepherd would divide the sheep and the goats. Are you tired of being an old goat? I sure am. Goats will eat almost anything. Goats don't grow anything , save maybe it's milk, that will benifit another. Sheep grow wool. Lambs offer their own flesh, to support and give life to another.

Oh I have to do something really soon. I just can't put it off any longer. I know this is the truth of God's Word. I know it's His will and purpose for our lives. My children are grown. There is nothing restraining me except my fear of hunger, loss of comfort. Yet deep in my heart, I know that God will feed me, if only I obey His call. Please pray for me.

In Him,

Lahry

 2005/9/26 9:19
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

Lahry, you have brought up some wonderful points!!

Quote:
It is truly time to stop talking about God and to start being like Jesus


Quote:
I'm so sick of me I could scream. I'm so lazy I'm not worth the price of a bullet to put me out of my misery. Thank God, it's not over yet. There is still precious little time to submit, surrender, to go to the cross and die, that I might live.


I have felt this way many times!!!!!!! I can so relate!

Quote:
He said, "no greater love hath a man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend". Our lives must be invested in others, their physical and spiritual welfare. There is so much more to being a christian, than just talking about it. We must come to a place of being, not just believing.


Amen! I cannot tell you how many times this past year or 6 months that the Lord has brought situations to me and his question is 'will you lay your life down?" Even if it is just for someone in your own home, maybe it is for your in-laws, maybe a neighbor, or maybe some in need. But He has made it so clear to me that it is not just about laying down our "lives" as we think about what a life is- but about what our "lifestyle" is. Will we lay down our comforts, our desires- things that make up our own life.

I thank the Lord for you Lahry and for bringing us in contact with Troy. You are right, he is the real deal. I thought it was awesome that he used to have a church and he said the Lord told him to go out into the streets to preach and help those who are the 'least of these'.

What a concept! BE THE CHURCH, not just go to church or pastor a church! :-) I wish more people could see this.

Dan (my husband) is still in weekly contact with Troy and is still doing what he can to give some help. I think we may have started something that my husband is now addicted to :-P He cannot wait until he can go back down there to help rebuild or whatever needs to be done.

But whether you help Troy or whether you go to Southern Mexico- the Lord will be with you. I pray that the Lord will direct you and lead you to go where and when He wants. May He open up a door for you so you will know.

Reading John Piper's book, "Don't Waste Your Life" has made such an impact on my life lately.

"I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work." Jn 9:4

"Redeeming the time, because the days are evil."–Eph. 5:16

In Him, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2005/9/26 10:02Profile









 Re: What kind of Counsel?

Quote:
[b]It is soooo difficult to get out of the boat and run across the water to Jesus[/b]. Oh God help us all.

I simply must. Why? Because I want what is beyond the cross, eternal life. That is the one thing, [b]I simply must have, eternal life with God[/b]. I want to honor Him with my obedience. I want to be loved by my Heavenly Father, and I want Jesus to manifest Himself to me, according to His Word...

There is so much more to being a christian, than just talking about it. We must come to a place of being, not just believing. If there is life, something must be growing. Growing in God is growing in love, loving our neighbor as ourselves...

I'm so lazy I'm not worth the price of a bullet to put me out of my misery. Thank God, it's not over yet...

Yet deep in my heart, I know that God will feed me, if only I obey His call. [b]Please pray for me[/b].

Yes, bro.

I identify with your cry to make it across Jordan.

Could I just make one suggestion...?

I heard a house-church leader who had been short of funds and renovating the house in which the church met, (seemingly for 'forever'), say he'd felt like a prisoner in his own home. I wonder if, sometimes, we imagine we should be somewhere else, because we instinctively devalue how we normally spend our day?

May I suggest you may be in the centre of God's will [i][b]now[/b][/i] and you will know what and where to do and go, if so be God has a different plan for you?

 2005/9/26 10:38
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

Quote:
May I suggest you may be in the centre of God's will now and you will know what and where to do and go, if so be God has a different plan for you?



I agree. The Lord will give you the revelation and the wisdom to make a move when it's time. :-)

In Him, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2005/9/26 11:07Profile





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