SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Understanding Katrina and Rita...

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
adam3000
Member



Joined: 2005/9/22
Posts: 3


 Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...

I'l write as concisely as possible to my reasons the hurricane occured:

[b]We Exist in a Sinful World: [/b] We've had to deal with death and destruction ever since the curse of sin came. The Bible teaches "the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain" (Rom 8:22). This is just a hard fact to deal with. Cancer. Disease. Earthquakes. Floods. This is the heartbreak of humanity that we cannot escape every calamity even if we are living right.

[b]Is this God's Judgement?: [/b] Has God's judgement poured out on New Orleans for being a den of voodoo and sin (including the huge sodomy festival scheduled the week of Katrina)? Could this be God's judgement? Certainly. Do we know for certain there is a direct connection? No.

A man I respect noted that the word of God is opposed to speculation. He brought up Luke 13:4-5: "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." So we can't make the claim that New Orleans was den of sin above other cities and that is why it was destroyed. If this was the case why hasn't God destroyed San Francisco the nation's sodomy capital, or Las Vegas the gambling and prostitution capital?

[b]We Build a City on the Sand: [/b] Jesus spoke of the man who built his house on the sand as opposed building on the rock. Not to rob the parable of its meaning (that salvation not built on the Jesus Christ's rock will be swept away), it is curious in it's non-spiritual sense too. To a certain extent Gulf Coast cities get hurricanes. They just do. Yet we Americans still build cities along the Gulf coast, aware that hurricanes will come.

I'm not trying to say we shouldn't do this, but it just makes questions like "God, why is Rita going to attack Houston?" or somewhat humorous in it's inverted form "God, why isn't Rita going to attack Iowa?" Well, because Houston is nearer the Gulf Coast and Iowa isn't. In a certain sense Houston is built more "on the sand" in that there are known dangers that occur regularly and we've chosen to build there anyways. And look at New Orleans, not only are they built near the coast they built their city below the sand in a way. And we wondered why the city was wasted in a flood.

Why do I bring this "house of sand" theory up? Partly to show that some of our own calamities that we might blame on God, are often our own foolishness as mankind. People build on flood planes and fault lines. People overbuild in areas, not planning for drainage and cause flooding. And every 15 to 20 years a major Hurricane hits Houston. Is this directly God's judgement or man's foolishness of building a city in the direct path of regular Hurricanes?

[b]Is the Global Warming?: [/b] The hurricane that destroyed Galveston a hundred years ago was before the height of industrialization that we are now in, before what eco alarmists say caused global warming. Global warming is a theory rejected by most scientists and historically we aren't experiencing any more hurricanes than we have before.

[b]My Point: [/b] America is deserving of judegement. We should have a call of mass national repentance. Most big name Christian leaders avoid this. But let's not lead the way into Christian superstition and speculation. Beware of giving credence to forward looking generalization in the name of prophecy. I'm no prophet and I could say "America has deserted God and there is going to be a great economic calamity and calamity of earthquakes to come." I've yet to see a prophet that specifically predicted 9/11 or Katrina before they happened.

 2005/9/22 19:55Profile









 Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...

Krispy,

as far as the Lord, righteous Judge of humankind and Father of all, has many many things, many to judge this nation over. You know that and I know that.

Take your pick.

Some here on this forum, wish to acknowledge some national sins, and ignore others, based on their cultural and personal views.

Some of the unchurched, some of the unsaved view our pronouncements of Divine Displeasure expressed thru national calamity as the rantings of those under religious delusion.

Let them,


...........fore their cries of terror and penitence will come too late. But here's the trouble, we and ours, our blood kin might get caught up in the coming storm.

What if you lived in Jerusalem circa 600 BC, what would you say to a rampaging Babylonian infantry squad?..."I follow Yahweh, I never worshipped Baal, never erected an asherah pole, nor practiced divination, always gave my tenth...I'm not part of this backslidden heathen mob".

you'd still be cut down, or deported.


If this unique experiment called the U.S.A. is one tribe, then we're all in it together, and we will all be punished together, queer, money-worshipper, abortionist, war-monger, pornographer, saint, saved sinner, sinner, backslidden sinner, lukewarm religionist, etc etc etc.

The point is this, woe to the church if they think that one sin is worse than the other, or that since those in the church hate their sin, and the heathen love their's that somehow the saints in America will ride out this coming national storm, (no, not Rita, the bigger wilder uglier STORM) .........said saints are deluded.

There's a hard rain a coming.

I was reading in Numbers 16 , about the rebellion of Korah, and then the Holy Spirit opened my mind, and it occured to me, thats what the homosexual priests within the presbyterian and episcopal are doing.....utter rebellion and anarchy, it's the rebellion of Korah all over again, 21st century style.

we call them on this sin and it doesn't matter.

But in the end, there will be hell to pay....

is the sin, the national sin, restricted and confined to the sexual?

Not at all.

Is deceit a sin? yes it is.

Thats why I insist that this folly called the War in Iraq is sinful, and should be denounced with the same righteous power as abortion on demand, and homosexual priest in the church, or pornography or worship of money.

Don't you understand....they are all thrown into the same barrel of charges......

Just as we are One Nation Under God, so are ALL OUR SINS, one sin under God...

For which sin did God punish Judah for in 586 BC?

For them all.

 2005/9/22 19:57
adam3000
Member



Joined: 2005/9/22
Posts: 3


 Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...

I'l write as concisely as possible to my reasons the hurricane occured:

[b]We Exist in a Sinful World: [/b] We've had to deal with death and destruction ever since the curse of sin came. The Bible teaches "the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain" (Rom 8:22). This is just a hard fact to deal with. Cancer. Disease. Earthquakes. Floods. This is the heartbreak of humanity that we cannot escape every calamity even if we are living right.

[b]Is this God's Judgement?: [/b] Has God's judgement poured out on New Orleans for being a den of voodoo and sin (including the huge sodomy festival scheduled the week of Katrina)? Could this be God's judgement? Certainly. Do we know for certain there is a direct connection? No.

A man I respect noted that the word of God is opposed to speculation. He brought up Luke 13:4-5: "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." So we can't make the claim that New Orleans was den of sin above other cities and that is why it was destroyed. If this was the case why hasn't God destroyed San Francisco the nation's sodomy capital, or Las Vegas the gambling and prostitution capital?

[b]We Build a City on the Sand: [/b] Jesus spoke of the man who built his house on the sand as opposed building on the rock. Not to rob the parable of its meaning (that salvation not built on the Jesus Christ's rock will be swept away), it is curious in it's non-spiritual sense too. To a certain extent Gulf Coast cities get hurricanes. They just do. Yet we Americans still build cities along the Gulf coast, aware that hurricanes will come.

I'm not trying to say we shouldn't do this, but it just makes questions like "God, why is Rita going to attack Houston?" or somewhat humorous in it's inverted form "God, why isn't Rita going to attack Iowa?" Well, because Houston is nearer the Gulf Coast and Iowa isn't. In a certain sense Houston is built more "on the sand" in that there are known dangers that occur regularly and we've chosen to build there anyways. And look at New Orleans, not only are they built near the coast they built their city below the sand in a way. And we wondered why the city was wasted in a flood.

Why do I bring this "house of sand" theory up? Partly to show that some of our own calamities that we might blame on God, are often our own foolishness as mankind. People build on flood planes and fault lines. People overbuild in areas, not planning for drainage and cause flooding. And every 15 to 20 years a major Hurricane hits Houston. Is this directly God's judgement or man's foolishness of building a city in the direct path of regular Hurricanes?

[b]Is the Global Warming?: [/b] The hurricane that destroyed Galveston a hundred years ago was before the height of industrialization that we are now in, before what eco alarmists say caused global warming. Global warming is a theory rejected by most scientists and historically we aren't experiencing any more hurricanes than we have before.

[b]My Point: [/b] America is deserving of judegement. We should have a call of mass national repentance. Most big name Christian leaders avoid this. But let's not lead the way into Christian superstition and speculation. Beware of giving credence to forward looking generalization in the name of prophecy. I'm no prophet and I could say "America has deserted God and there is going to be a great economic calamity and calamity of earthquakes to come." I've yet to see a prophet that specifically predicted 9/11 or Katrina before they happened.

 2005/9/22 20:00Profile









 "eco-alarmists"?

Sir, you wrote:

Quote:
Global warming is a theory rejected by most scientists



Where do you get that. I read this in that subversive left-wing publication called "National Geographic";

Quote:
Most scientists agree that global warming presents the greatest threat to the environment.

There is little doubt that the Earth is heating up. In the last century the average temperature has climbed about 0.6 degrees Celsius (about 1 degree Fahrenheit) around the world



 2005/9/22 20:16









 Re: "eco-alarmists"?

Quote:
subversive left-wing publication called "National Geographic"





Now that's what I call honesty.

I can't help but to commend honesty.



They're really a good reference for Evolution and reasons to reduce the earth's population also.


:-o

 2005/9/22 22:46
adam3000
Member



Joined: 2005/9/22
Posts: 3


 Re:

Neilgin1, out of my whole post you're going to pick on that? If you think that National Geographic is some straight laced cause for good in the world and on the side of truth then I'm not sure you realize how much they push a secular humanist view of the world. They are one of the leading promoters of evolution and billions of years which goes against Genesis.

GrannieAnnie, I'm guessing by your sarcasm you also realize Nation Geographic is a poluting force against God.

On Global Warming: Man will not destroy this planet. God is the one who will bring this planet low and redeem it. As Christians, our main cause isn't to get man to repent of his eco-crimes, but against his sins against God (which if you look over the whole Bible, never includes polution of the Earth in an ecological sense).

On Hurricanes: My whole point was to say let's not be the friends of Job here. Let's not point the finger at one city or another and say you're so wicked and my city or my country is clean. We are all wicked we all need to repent.

 2005/9/22 23:17Profile









 Re: adam3000

pick on? Because I pointed out something that you wrote, that I do not agree with?

thats picking on?

Global warming is a reality, God appointed us to be loving stewards of a planet we insist on trashing. I could care less whether you agree with that or not, but to say "most scientists"
don't think that we are changing the atmosphere of this planet is to totally ignore reality.

This nation is a leader, should act like a leader, and sign the Kyoto protocol's, period.

But they won't because it would disappoint their true god...money.

Reading your post over, I thank God that our founding fathers were as farsighted as they were...what do I mean by that?

I hear many within the american evangelical community saying that our country the U.S.A. is a Judeo-Christian nation.

The United States of America is nation where a Christian, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Muslim can worship in freedom, without fear of worshipping in their way. It is not a Judeo-Christian nation, it is a beacon of freedom holding out the light to a tired world. It's time we started to remember that, and quit stomping about the globe being the world's bully...ooops, I meant world's policeman.

This is the whole ball game to this experiment called the U.S.A. religious freedom, religious tolerance and when I see statements like

Quote:
Nation Geographic is a poluting force against God.



this reminds me of the taliban or the mullahs who currently run Iran.

There are many who want a theocracy in this country...dominionists...God help America if they ever succeed.

Adam, what does the above have to do with you?

I wasn't picking on you, I just didnt agree with what you wrote.

 2005/9/22 23:47
Servus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 17


 Re:

First I want to appologize for taking up so much space. I know some people don't like to read the long posts, but this is laying heavily upon my mind and I must say it. I have to agree with Krispy on this; I do believe these hurricanes to be the wrath of God.
Why? Becuase we as a nation have turned away from God. We are a nation that is supposedly founded upon Godly principles, and we have turned away (I've been reading the Old Testament and this country sounds just like the people of Israel shortly before they were carried away captive into babylon as part of God's judgement). What does the Bible say concerning this? The other day I was reading Leviticus chapter 26 and these verses really stood out to me.

"But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savor of your sweet odors.
And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste."
Leviticus 26:14 - 33

We as a nation have turned away from God in so many ways, and we are without repentance, but rather we are proud, for we think that we have done no wrong. The messages that are being preached are rarely about repentance anymore. God wants us to repent and He will do what it takes to push us into repentance. The Bible says in Hebrews 12:5 - 8

"And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

I feel it in my spirit that God has been pouring out His wrath upon this nation as well as the world. The book of Revelation says it will happen in the last days. I believe that in the days to come it will only get worse. God is trying to push his people (who as a culture have commited adultry against him by embracing sin.) into repentance. Are the people in New Orleans any worse sinners than we are? No, it is only by the grace of God that we are saved. However, there is always the possibility that God was trying chastise them into repentance. If this is the case, I don't think they got the point. Instead of calling out to God, the aftermath of Katrina brought about violence and rioting, rape, theft, and even murder. I find it a bit curious that Rita is heading toward Texas, or more directly, toward the Houston area (where the refugees of Katrina are being sheltered in the Astro dome). Why is our pride so bad that we are not willing to admit when we are wrong and repent? There needs to be a call for repentance. We, as a nation need to get down on our knees before God and ask His forgiveness for our multiple sins against Him.

Grieved in the spirit ~Shaun.


_________________
Shaun

 2005/9/23 3:50Profile









 Re:

Grieved. Yes, I was so grieved over Katrina, I couldn't talk on the phone for 2 weeks and hardly slept the first 5 days.

I would only come here and email just 2 friends, who I knew would understand my grief.

But what also grieves me, is what sort of witness is all of this to those who lost innocent babies, wives and old people, etc. ?

All this talk of "wrath", when the "wrath" isn't poured out until The Vials are poured out.

If folks could only see what Revelation is saying. Why do we just listen to Tim Lahaye and those like him ??? Why don't we read Revelation with just The Holy Spirit's help ? (Jn 16:13)

We are under the removal of the protecting hand of God now ... and that is different than His Wrath. (Rev.15:1,7 & 16:1)


He is letting men have their way, until He finally lets those Vials go ... and we have some time yet before that comes.
(I wouldn't say more than 10 yr.s though and could be as little as 4)

I know I joke around a lot sometimes, but that "Man-made" thread, really needs more investigation ... when you allign it with God's Word on the Last Days. I've studied "technology" from their own sources for 25 yr.s because I've always been fasinated by what they are able to do. As Babel "nothing is impossible unto them."

God leaves man to himself and they all but "destroy the earth" with their technologies, etc.. "If those days aren't shortened, no flesh would survive" ... can't we see what part is God's doing and what part of Revelation is man's, under demonic power and demonic wisdom ?

I've asked before and I'll ask again ... use your search engines and just type in "global de-population" ... just for one, and ask GOD for wisdom to discern truth from lies.

But, I really doubt if investigation is what we're into ... it's easier to just sit around and spectulate.

But even if that were not the case ... don't we look strange as Christians, if hurricanes have been around since the flood, and we are now telling these folks, they lost their loved ones because of God's Wrath ?

God "allows" these things,(if storms were from Him all the time, how is it that He "calmed them" when He was here, in the flesh ?), but if you could look at the pictures of old people dying from thirst in their wheel chairs or drowning in the Nursing Home and tell these folks that survived, that that was God's 'Wrath', then I don't know what that will do for us winning anyone to Christ.

That's what's got me grieved. I don't know if I would ever get converted that way.
Can't you see what the 'average unsaved Joe' reading all of this would think ?
Don't you remember what you were like before Jesus cleaned you up ?

I agree that "national repentence" is needed, but don't hold your breath on that happening. I believe we have been 'given over' and the majority of Christians have been given over to believe the lie of 2Thess2.

When religion merged with Politics, that was when God took His Hand off of US, just as when Israel wanted a king ... and now man is killing man, and all we're going to get is loss of freedoms, more new diseases, more loss of property, foreign troops on our soil, world government, etc. etc., and we'll welcome every bit of it, because we've believed the false prophets in "the church". Those big named men that most of "the church" follows. Those big name men that are totally merged with politics now and even willing to go with Clinton's Initiative or anyone's initiative, just to keep their piece of turf on this earth.

I'm grieved because we don't care enough to investigate and as God said, we believe what we 'want' to believe and would rather follow the crowd then ask Him, what on earth is going on.

Work while it is yet day, because the night comes when no man can work .... but make the witness to the Lost right, while we still can.
Don't follow the crowd. Jesus said, "MOST" will fall away in these days.

That's what's grieving me. Would you stand in the middle of a hurricane ravaged city (in person) with dead all around and yell out these things ? Or would you preach the Love that was nailed to that tree for them, while you help them ?

Don't you think they read Forums ?


I'm sorry for my reaction, but I'm grieved too.
I'm grieved because this 'is' just the beginning of sorrows and we don't have a lot of time left to give the Love of God to these folks.


Most of the earth's population will die and only we hold the Word of Life, from the Only Giver of Life.

 2005/9/23 6:56









 Re:

Shawn, my post was not 'at' you because I believe the verses you gave "are" from God, but they are/were written to "God's People" ... not the heathen.

God Bless you.
Annie

 2005/9/23 7:20





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy