| Understanding Katrina and Rita...|
I know many disagree with me concerning my thoughts about Hurricane Katrina, and it's hit on New Orleans. I stand behind what I have said, and how I believe it was God's judgement on the Gulf Coast gambling and debauchery.
Just wondering what folks think about Hurricane Rita. It's bearing down on Houston/Galveston... and like any major city in the states, Houston certainly has it's issues with sin, but not necessarily to the degree that New Orleans.
Could these hurricanes blasting America where it hurts most... oil refineries... be God's judgement on not just the debauchery of a single city or region, but on the nation as a whole?
What about the hurricane that leveled Galveston TX in 1900? 10's of thousands of people died in that one (no one really knows how many exactly). How do we interpret that one?
I personally believe this is all part of the fulfilling of prophecy. I believe it is part judgement, part prophecy. The sunami, earth quakes, hurricanes, twisters... etc. All part of this scripture:
Mat 24:6-13 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: [b]and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. [color=FF0000]All these are the beginning of sorrows.[/color][/b]
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [b]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.[/b]
| 2005/9/22 10:24|
| Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...|
Ha! ... Ha! ... Bro. Krisp let me shimmy on out on this limb with you man! ... :-P
"Could these hurricanes blasting America where it hurts most... oil refineries... be God's judgment on not just the debauchery of a single city or region, but on the nation as a whole?"
This is my take on the matter, and what i say here is my own personal beliefs so i'll not be arguing with anyone about whether it's God or global warming ...
i think even in attempting to decipher God's judgment folk strain at gnats (see regional sin - if they're capable of seeing sin at all) and swallow camels (can't see our national sins) ... These hurricanes have wreaked first hand destruction regionally, but nationally we have not even yet began to feel the pain ... Yeah we feel it at the pump so far, but most folks in my area might be complaining about gas prices but they're still running their auto's AC ... What most common ery'day folk ain't seeing is what was spelled out some time ago in the thread:
Info on America's Precarious Economy (Audio) ...
The once so called good life in the good ole US of A folks, is about to come crashing down just as the towers did ... And as Dr. Bates (christian economist) likes to point out, wealth won't disappear but it is about to be redistributed ... Many today to caught up in the gimmie more to appreciate what they have, will soon long for what they didn't appreciate ... Our entire economy (if it can truly be called that) is based on the continual shuffling of debt packages called derivatives, it's a giant shell game that can't afford any interuption to this shuffling in the form of loan defaults (not paying on time) ... Most Americans can't even get their "self" pre-occupied heads wrapped around how many loan defaults have occured in the wake of Katrina, and now comes Rita ... Like the towers our economy is at the slow burn, and we all know what happens next!
i was thinking the other night what i heard God say in my spirit at the beginning of 2001 concerning these so called natural disasters, that they would come bigger and with escalating frequency, and that the subsequent social unrest will be catastrophic ... Look at what happened with the criminal element in New Orleans, and the anarchy satan launched with his crew ... Now imagine that multiplied in the wake of further disasters, with dwindling tax revenues, less law enforcement, and government bailouts ...
Yeah LA., NY, Vegas, New Orleans, etc. may be sin laden hot spots, but we as a nation, have slaughtered millions of the unborn as "contraceptive afterthought) via it's condoning by our very government itself ... In my mind the cost of this national, governmentally condoned sin is enough to finally cause God's hand of correction against us ... Scripture says that governments are put into place by God Himself, and that a good one is a blessing to the people in that it exacts fair and moral laws of protection ... In fact Scripture calls governments His servants ... Well it stands to my reasoning that if His governmental servant begins to enact laws like first (slavery - which ended in that bloody Civil War), and now (abortion - which i think is the main reason we as a nation is in deep do-do now), can you imagine what governmentally legalized/sanctioned gay-unions would do to our nation's already (obvious to this saint) overflowing vat of His stored up wrath ... It seems to me that God is using whatever natural phenomena we've come to expect (which is why the debate as to is it Him or not) in certain geographical areas to make His points of displeasure ... So the mid-west seems to be prone to tornadoes, the Gulf to hurricanes, and the West coast to earthquakes (which i sense in my spirit is gonna rock the east coat too) ... i just wonder how much it's gonna take to make most of us sit up and take notice that "God is trying to tell us something" ...
By my estimation God's hand of correction takes a long time, and i've personally believe that for the world (in particularly Europe) the beginning of sorrows began with WWI ... And i do agree with you that i think this nation America, who in our debauched blindness still profess His name, has in fact brought ourselves to His awful grace of discipline ... But what i see good coming out of this is a re-active repentance that will cause the mother of all revivals, the mother of all harvests of souls, the seperation of the true of Christ Jesus from the false, and the refining of His Church to our capability of being caught up to Himself ...
Soon, and very soon, it will be all about His work!
PS - You also said this;
"What about the hurricane that leveled Galveston TX in 1900? 10's of thousands of people died in that one (no one really knows how many exactly). How do we interpret that one?"
Has it been 105 years between these two hurricanes? ... Anyhow your comment also reminded me of this past thread ...
Those crazy Puritans, that crazy Dave Wilkerson, and crazy me ...
My first reaction, especially to the kinds of devestation we've all witnessed in the past four years, is that of the Puritans ... Repentance, and "What Lord"?... :beard:
| 2005/9/22 11:58||Profile|
i wasn't gonna post the following, but it's in line with brother Krisp's thread ...
i have to admit that i find the direction the Body of Christ is taking in reaction to these disasters so fulfilling and satisfying in the direction of representing Christ and His kingdom here on earth ...
USA - The 'SORROWS' BEGIN?
- by Andrew Strom
I write this as an outsider who loves the USA. I am a New
Zealander now living in the United States - currently involved in
the relief effort in Mississippi. The destruction here is an eye-
opener for sure.
But something is amiss in this country - something so serious -
that the loudest warnings from above are seemingly falling on
deaf ears. For the last 250 years, from a christian perspective,
America has been one of the greatest "Lands of Revivals" that
there has ever been. Since 1741, America has seen more Great
Awakenings than any other nation. It wouldn't be hard to make
the case that America is the most "Revived" nation in history.
Yet that has begun to change. America has grown rich, and has
forgotten God. She has turned away from the very one who
blessed her in the first place. And lately it seems like no matter
how loudly God shouts at her to turn around, she is too
preoccupied to listen. Things are about to get pretty rough here.
As I write this, yet another category 4 or 5 hurricane is bearing
down on the Texas coast. If it hits the oil-refining region below
Houston, it could have a catastrophic effect. Either way, it is
difficult to see how the nation can keep absorbing these
massive shocks. The human tragedy is indescribable.
Four years ago, God sent the first of these wake-up calls to
this nation. All he had to do was lift his hand of protection for
an instant. After 9-11, America did get somewhat "religious" for
a season, but this has since worn off. There was no permanent
repentance. Comfort, entertainment, and materialism still rule
the land, and God alone knows what it will take to change that.
The size of the shocks that are necessary - only He can tell.
What will it take for America to repent - to turn back to the God
of her fathers?
9-11 didn't do it. The four hurricanes criss-crossing Florida
last year didn't do it. And hurricane Katrina destroying the
casinos, the oil, and the "Southern Decadence" city of New
Orleans didn't do it either. The mayor was back there within
weeks, urging them to gear up for the next debauchery parade,
known as Mardi Gras. Throwing it in the very face of God. These
people have learned nothing. And thus, the wake-up calls will continue.
But what about the church? Is she blameless in all this?
I have a friend here who believes that America is about to
become a third world country - all because she will not repent.
The process is already underway. This is but the "beginning of
Because of the new hurricane, I will likely head across to
Texas with a load of supplies and tools on my way home this
weekend - they may need it more than Mississippi before long.
Rick Walth, a revival preacher from Iowa, is due to take over the
base here. He is an excellent brother. Meanwhile, Darren Smith of
"Streetscape" is now coordinating efforts for BOTH disaster zones -
the one here and the one due in Texas.
Please keep us in your prayers, my friends. By the way, we need
MORE PEOPLE to come down and help. We have an excellent
base here, and many needy people (and there will likely be one in
Texas also). Please phone me if you can make it down - (985) 788-9939.
Please pray for Texas, my friends. Pray for mercy in the midst of
God bless you all,
Kindest regards in Christ,
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| 2005/9/22 12:20||Profile|
| Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...|
I guess that makes two of us that agree on this issue. America has and is continuing to push God out while letting sin in all its filth infiltrate society and we wonder why these hurricanes or any other disasters happen. I agree God is loving and caring but God is also a God of Judgement and Wrath.
| 2005/9/22 12:37||Profile|
| Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...|
I believe this hurricane to simply be another manifestation of what God is attempting to do with our nation. As I've been preaching since Katrina, I believe God has His hand on our nation and is attempting to shake our nation and wake us up from our sleep. He has placed His hand on us as attempting to shake us out of our slumber. Our economy will continue to be hurt, storms will continue to rage, and we will yet again go to war.
| 2005/9/22 12:41||Profile|
| Re: historic persepctive|
Perhaps this huuricane is about judgement. This does raise a question though...what were all these hurricanes about? [url=http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/HAW2/english/history.shtml]Hurricanes since Galveston 1900[/url]
Some were less powerful hurricanes...some were more powerful. (Camille reached 200 mph before it hit land in 1969.) Last year Ivan entered the gulf, spawned 100 tornadoes untill it reached the eastern coast, slid back down to Florida, crossed over into the gulf and hit land again!
In 1938 a hurricane of immense proportions hit the northeast states, a part of the world once thought immune to such horrific forces. The mood of our nation then was low too; emerging from one great tragedy, the Depression, and about to enter an even darker period as Hitler began his rise to power.
I have come to see Katrina as a cat 4 hurricane made catasphrophic by cat 3 levee engineering and below sea-level urban planning. It was another serious tropical cyclone untill it was amplified into the worst disaster in US history by our own incompetence.
I'm not saying with certainty whether Rita is judgement or not. (I agree that we, as a nation, are spiritualy sliding.) I am saying it's important to put Katrina and Rita in historic perspective. These days are hard, but we are not the only generation that has experienced national catastrophic tragedy.
| 2005/9/22 12:46||Profile|
...and we will yet again go to war
Thats what Iran is preparing for. They have built underground bunkers that would fit their entire government in. This has all happened within the last couple years. The enemy they think is coming? It isnt Iraq... it's America.
And what about that nut-job in North Korea? To me, they are the ones we need to worry about the most.
| 2005/9/22 13:20|
| Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...|
Hi brother Mike ...
Since the sunami, and especially after Katrina, my phone has been burning up with folk trying to come to some closure on what's occuring now ... They already know my take, and some phone to fish for some type of a compromise in reasoning between what i believe/have said and what they're thinking ...
i've told many a saint that in my flesh i often times wish that i could get past this gnawing belief that God is in fact escalating correction to us, by being able to take all the obvious data into account and find some logically based solace in many of the facts that you've mentioned ... But i can't - and that's my bottom line ... Pure logic does in fact seem to cancel out God having any direct hand in these catastrophies ... So as i, and most folk who know me, already know, when it comes to such events, especially as things stand now, i'm just incapable of being logical ... The basis for my being so illogical is my fear of God, the same basis that the much more unlearned, and far less scientific Putitans operated out of ...So the question in analogy for me is "Is it live (God), or is it Memorex (Natural occurences exascerbated by human stupidity) ... i hear "live"! (exacerbated by human stupidity and unrepentant rebelliousness) ...
i'm a cautious, safety conscious nut by nature, and so my faith/fear tells me that it's far better for me to be right in the first explanation at the expense of my humiliation by those who believe the latter, than for me to be wrong in the logic of the latter at the expense of my humiliation by God Himself ...
| 2005/9/22 14:39||Profile|
| Re: Understanding Katrina and Rita...|
Brother Krisp you wrote;
"To me, they are the ones we need to worry about the most."
i understand where you're coming from, and in turn hope that you can understand my point of reference ...
Matt.10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The things that are so rapidly happening now are not causing me worry, or concern, in that i know my/our lives are in His hands ... He knows the beginning of our earthly existence, our journey, and just how each of us will end ...
He began at the beginning of 2001 dropping things in my spirit about where we as a nation, and a church, are headed ... In fact He had me proclaim it, which is why now folk are seeking me out soon after the point of Him shuting my mouth and preparing me for the next phase - The revival/harvest phase ... It's one thing to hear God say escalating devestation is coming, but to actually see the end result of such occurences - especially on ones home turf - well it's just gut wrenching ... But still the live/Memorex debate goes on amongst His saints, and the outright rebellion continues of the likes of those who've decided they're gonna party-hearty any how - come hell or high water (pun intended) ...
Your comment has also called to mind these soothing scriptures of comfort ...
| 2005/9/22 14:40||Profile|
| Re: Live/Memorex|
Was Katrina Intelligent Design?
September 2, 2005 Sermons Edition
By John Piper
Editor's Note: For resources on responding to Hurricane Katrina, see the "Today at DG" section on the Desiring God homepage.
On his 89th birthday (August 31) NPR Senior News Analyst, Daniel Schorr, observed that President Bush had staked out a non-position on the debate between evolution and intelligent design. Bush had said that both sides ought to be properly taught in the schools of America. Then, with manifest scorn, Schorr linked the devastation of Hurricane Katrina with the concept of intelligent design: [Bush] might well have reflected that, if this was the result of intelligent design, then the designer has something to answer for.
No, Mr. Schorr, you have something to answer for, not God. God answers to no man. Come, Daniel Schorr, take your place with Job and answer your Maker: The Lord answered Job [and Daniel Schorr] out of the whirlwind and said: Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for actionlike a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. . . . Who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors, and said, Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed? (Job 38:1-3, 8-11).
Who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Shall the pot say to the Potter, This is an unintelligent way to show your justice and your power? Come, Maker of heaven and earth, sit at my feetI have lived 89 years and have gotten much wisdomand I will teach youthe eternal Godhow to govern the universe?
No. Rather let us put our hands on our mouths and weep both for the perishing and for ourselves who will soon follow. Whatever judgment has fallen, it is we who deserve itall of us. And whatever mercy is mingled with judgment in New Orleans neither we nor they deserve.
God sent Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners. He did not suffer massive shame and pain because Americans are pretty good people. The magnitude of Christs suffering is owing to how deeply we deserve Katrinaall of us.
Our guilt in the face of Katrina is not that we cant see the intelligence in Gods design, but that we cant see arrogance in our own heart. God will always be guilty of high crimes for those who think theyve never committed any.
But God commits no crimes when he brings famine, flood, and pestilence on the earth. Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it? (Amos 3:6). The answer of the prophet is no. Gods own testimony is the same: I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things (Isaiah 45:7). And if we ask, is there intelligent design in it all, the Bible answers: You meant evil . . . but God meant it [designed it] for good (Genesis 50:20).
This will always be ludicrous to those who put the life of man above the glory of God. Until our hearts are broken, not just for the life-destroying misery of human pain, but for the God-insulting rebellion of human sin, we will not see intelligent design in the way God mingles mercy and judgment in this world. But for those who bow before Gods sovereign grace and say, From him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever, they are able to affirm, Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! (Romans 11:36, 33). And wisdom is another name for intelligent design.
No, Daniel Schorr, God does not answer to us. We answer to him. And we have only one answer: Guilty as charged. Every mouth is stopped and the whole world is accountable before God. There is only one hope to escape the flood of Gods wrath. It is not the levee of human virtue but the high ground called Calvary. All brokenhearted looters and news analysts and pastors are welcome there.
| 2005/9/22 14:49||Profile|