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Wildhorse
Member



Joined: 2005/8/28
Posts: 48
Australia

 Our Sinful Nature and the Devil

Hey Guys,
Just a query.

How does the devil influence our sinful nature?
How does he make some people do certain things?

Cheers,
Michael H


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Michael Hancock

 2005/9/21 21:41Profile
Joshua99
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 118
Austin Tx.

 Re: Our Sinful Nature and the Devil

Quote:
How does the devil influence our sinful nature?


If you read carefully 2cor. 10:3-5 you will see what paul concludes, starting with thoughts that build and finally result in strongholds of the enemy. If you and I do not have a proper foundation built by the Spirit of God upon the written Word of God, we will have no defense against the wiles(lies against the word of God) of the devil.
Consider these verses found in 2 timothy 2:24-26

2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Unbelievers are already captured , they are sinners, verse 26 is speaking about christians, who have falling away into sin, carried away by there lusts....which started with one seed- a thought. So with that information, you shuld be able to see how satan can make people fulfill his will. Blessings :-)


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Bryan

 2005/9/22 0:02Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

It is interesting Michael that you brought up this subject. It has been raised a few times recently, and so I think it is very important. We need to know answers in order to avoid being led away by deception about the devil (which is what he'dwant).

I've been thinking on this a lot. From what I can understand, the devil has no POWER over us in a sense that he cannot FORCE our will, but he influences it through deception. Thus we must ultimately take accountability of all our choices.

I put some more of my thoughts here - as it relates to the fall of man: [url=http://www.thewayback.net/articles/devil.htm]The Devil made me do it - NOT[/url]
This is only a beginning, and must be reshaped. I trust that some more thoughts will be shed on this thread.

If we can't apply these concepts into the realities of life, then it is merely a theological discussion.
Diane


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Diane

 2005/9/22 8:32Profile









 Re: Our sinful nature and the devil

Quote:
who have falling away into sin, carried away by there lusts....which started with one seed- a thought. So with that information, you shuld be able to see how satan can make people fulfill his will.

There's also this brief synopsis from James.

James 1

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 but every man is tempted, when [b]he is drawn away of his own lust[/b], and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

 2005/9/22 8:36
samkma
Member



Joined: 2005/9/18
Posts: 15
Bahrain

 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
I've been thinking on this a lot. From what I can understand, the devil has no POWER over us in a sense that he cannot FORCE our will, but he influences it through deception. Thus we must ultimately take accountability of all our choices.




Satan has no authority over the redeemed ones, so the only way he can get us into sin is by deceiving us by telling us lies, he is called a deceiver and father of lies. That's what he did in the garden where our fore father Adam and mum Eve lived. he just made them believe in his words than that of The Most High.

The power of our flesh is great that we lust after the things of this world and sin often.

I disagree with people who blame satan for all the sin that comes to their lives.
As a son / daughter of God the Most High we need to give ear to His voice and obey the Spirit not the flesh.
Blessings
Hoping to hear more from you all.

 2005/9/22 9:46Profile
LetUsPray
Member



Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173


 Re: Our Sinful Nature and the Devil

Quote:
How does the devil influence our sinful nature?



I just wanted to add some of my thoughts to the wisdom of the other respondents.

James 4:7, Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Ephesians 6:10, Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

2Cor.11:14,15, And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;

James puts it very plainly: Submit to God and resist the devil. Submitting to God means that Jesus becomes your All in All. Whatever He taught and teaches, we obey. He quoted three Scriptures when tempted by the devil, and the devil left.

We have to know Scripture. We have to really understand Who Jesus is (which may seem a “funny” thing coming out of my mouth, after a previous thread). As is written by Paul to the Corinthians, Satan is transformed as an angel of light and there ministry workers of various kinds who actually come across as ministers of righteousness. We often think of what is understood as “bad – dirty” things being from Satan, but many things in the Church have the same demonic source.

A study of the book of Ephesians is very helpful, for it is like a long exhortation by Paul in which he addresses a whole range of topics and then writes: FINALLY…BE STRONG IN THE LORD AND THE POWER OF HIS MIGHT. All that preceded this statement in Eph.6:10: FINALLY…. prepares us for what lies ahead as is written in Eph.6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high (places).

Just the first chapter alone, defines who we are “in Christ.” Chosen by the Father, redeemed by the Son, and sealed by the Holy Spirit. A suggestion: when you study this letter, begin with the prayer: ”That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened.” (Eph.1:17,18).

Paul documents two prayers in this letter. These prayers contain a number of extremely important requests to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I am preparing a separate post in which I want to address these two prayers, for they contain a wealth of riches, which, if we are sincere in our hearts will help us greatly in “Being Strong in the Lord.”

Bottom line:
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil (1John3:8).


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Hans Prang

 2005/9/22 9:49Profile
RandyJ
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Joined: 2005/10/1
Posts: 49
Peace River, AB, Canada

 Re:

Hello there. Am I out of place to ask what is meant by sinful nature? Do you mean the propensities of the flesh? The desires of the flesh? Then Adam and Eve had a sinful nature. And Christ had a sinful nature.


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Randy Steinke

 2005/10/1 1:17Profile
jimbob
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Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Randy,
Since the fall man has set himself up as his own god (that is the lie of satan,"you shall be as God"). The desires of the "flesh" could rightly be interpreted as the desires of the "self" setting up your own agendas instead of Gods agendas. Romans 8:7 says"the MIND set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, FOR IT IS NOT EVEN ABLE TO DO SO."
And Eph 4:17" So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their MIND, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them..."
When man fell, his spirit, mind and body became seperated from God, he set up his own agenda and that is what is meant by the sinful nature or the fleshly desires.

 2005/10/1 2:03Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Hello there. Am I out of place to ask what is meant by sinful nature? Do you mean the propensities of the flesh? The desires of the flesh? Then Adam and Eve had a sinful nature. And Christ had a sinful nature.


randy
I think this is the key question; what do we mean by...? The problem as it stands is that this is not 'bible language'. The scriptures don't really refer to 'nature' or to 'self'. These are modern definitions of actual Bible phrases rather than true Bible language. For myself, I discipline my mind to ask Bible questions in Bible language; it forces me to shape my experience in Bible language rather than the other way around.

I will illustrate; The NASV has, in Romans 6:6, 'our old self was crucified'. This is already getting us on the wrong track. The concept of the 'self' is from psychology not from Bible revelation, and makes a nonsense of this verse. By implication, we have 'new self' on the way, but would a new 'self' be any better than an old 'self'? Some other versions will speak of 'our old nature' but again we have moved away from the language of the Bible.

The Bible word used in this particular verse is 'man' and is a continuation of the thoughts which begin in Rom 5:12 relating to 'two men'; the first man and the second man, the first man is according to Romans 6:6 'the ancient man'; who is this? This is Adam. There is another vital truth in this verse which is that it is 'our old man', not 'our old men' and not 'my old man'. There is a plurality and a singularity mixed together. I do not have 'an old man'; there is no '[u]an[/u] old man', there is only '[u]the[/u] old man' which we all share.

If Christ has dealt with 'the old man' all that is necessary is for me to be trully 'in Christ'. I am not referring to Bible verses here but to the reality of having been 'immersed into Him' and 'abiding in Him'.

What I am trying to do is to drive a wedge in between the ideas of 'the old man' and 'the flesh'; these two Bible concepts are not synonyms. Christ had 'flesh' but he had no 'old man'.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/10/1 5:01Profile
Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re: Our Sinful Nature and the Devil

Quote:
I will illustrate; The NASV has, in Romans 6:6, 'our old self was crucified'. This is already getting us on the wrong track. The concept of the 'self' is from psychology not from Bible revelation, and makes a nonsense of this verse. By implication, we have 'new self' on the way, but would a new 'self' be any better than an old 'self'? Some other versions will speak of 'our old nature' but again we have moved away from the language of the Bible.



Excellent point Ron! The NIV makes the same blunder. Ah! these modern versions...

 2005/10/1 5:24Profile





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