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dougkristen
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Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360


 Need help looking for sermons on "False Conversion"

Other than sermons by Ray Comfort, are there other sermons on SI about false conversion or a similar topic? Thank you!

In Christ,
Doug


_________________
a Jesus freak

 2005/9/21 11:37Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re: Need help looking for sermons on "False Conversion"

I don't believe there is such a thing as "false conversions."

I believe Scripture teaches that man turns away from God for various reasons. It is God who bestows His grace, it is man who chooses to hear.

Matt. 13:18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The first three example speak of those who fall away.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/9/21 12:20Profile
dougkristen
Member



Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360


 Re:

So you believe that everybody that goes to church is "wheat" and is saved? and that there are no "false" converts in the church and if they fall away they would leave?

What about 'Depart from me, I never knew you..." scripture, can you explain this one? to those who thought they knew Christ and were saved, doing ministry in His name?

I disagee..

In Christ,
Doug


_________________
a Jesus freak

 2005/9/21 13:04Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Doug wrote:

Quote:
What about 'Depart from me, I never knew you..." scripture, can you explain this one? to those who thought they knew Christ and were saved, doing ministry in His name?



The last part of that verse states this:

'you who practice lawlessness!’

Can one be known by Christ who does not walk with Christ?

This idea fits perfectly into the Parable of the Sower. If one continues to be transformed by the Word of God, one will have his heart softened and humbled by that Word. To continue this thought that is portrayed in Scripture read:

John 8:

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

John 8:33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Here, like in the parable of the sower and Matthew 7 Scripture speaks about lawlessness and freedom. Listen to verse 35:

"And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever."

Two abide in the house for a time, yet the one who practices lawlessness will not remain in the house. The parable of the sower speaks of the same process.

So the question really is "who is being conformed into the image of His Son?"

One cannot hide the glory that comes from being known by Him. Lawlessness in Scripture always speaks of not mixing faith with what one hears.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/9/21 14:44Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

I agree with you Doug. Any one who thinks they are saved and in reality according to Scripture they are not, is what many refer to as a false convert. Of course, not everyone who thinks they are saved is really saved. (Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, the easy believism sin your way to heaven group and many other modern church going christians - not to mention the Easter and Christmas crowd - all of which think they are soundly saved and on their way to heaven) I don't think their would be very many to argue that all these people are saved and going to heaven and that their is no such thing as a false convert. Most false converts were simply preached half truths and lies upon which they base their salvation.

Anyway - here is some good info from Dave Wilkerson.

[url=http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/1990s/ts900115.txt]http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/1990s/ts900115.txt[/url]

I have more but I need to find it - just give me some time.


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Patrick Ersig

 2005/9/21 14:46Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Here are 14 sermons on the subject by Jonathan Edwards. Although I haven't read it, there is an additional chapter---a 30-page testimony, from a Chinese Christian, "to the benefit of reading Edwards."
[url=http://www.graceandtruthbooks.com/puritans/theology.asp?page=3&num=15]Knowing the Heart: Edwards on True and False Conversion[/url]

Quote:
can you explain this one? to those who thought they knew Christ and were saved, doing ministry in His name?



As my footnote to add to this discussion, I don't think we can equate as interchangeable "those who thought they knew Christ" with those who were "doing ministry in His name." I think I understand what you meant, but I think it's worth mentioning that there is a difference between professing good and "Christian" works to save us from hell and professing a personal knowledge of relationship with Christ. (I am focusing on people being decieved, not hypocrites who decieve.)

A believer’s experiential relationship with Jesus is a primary (albeit subjective) assurance in this life, outside of the objective truths of scripture. If our knowledge of that relationship, as well as confidence in that knowledge can be false, then all the peace, grace, conviction, and assurance that we experience in our spiritual lives may in fact also be false.

For what it's worth...I do not believe the goats were saying to Jesus "We thought we knew you!" Instead they were saying, "We performed spiritual and moral deeds in your name." I think we need to untangle phrases like "(they)think they are soundly saved and on their way to heaven" from "those who thought they knew Christ". They do not contain the same understanding.

I hope the book is useful to you! Bless you brothers.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/9/21 14:53Profile









 Re:

I think everyone has a good idea on it all. But this i think is not what the bible ever taught, if seen with the Spirit and not with the flesh.

Quote:

Christisking wrote:
not to mention the Easter and Christmas crowd - all of which think they are soundly saved and on their way to heaven)



I don't want to get into a discussion with this, but the REMANT of God, the TRUE believers might celebrate those, not in referance to those gods, and then THATS NOT A SIN. Read what Paul wrote about meat.

We are NOT justified by the Law, nor are we to obey the Law of Moses/Prophets, but fulfill them all with the 2 Christ said 'fulfilled' them all. Love God, Love others (more emphasis on both).

 2005/9/21 16:59









 Re: False Conversion Messages.

I posted one I had found that was in written form here.

I know it was 'very' convicting to me, but I don't know if this is what you want .


http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6655&forum=36&2

 2005/9/21 17:48
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

This sermon is entitled, "True and False Converion", by Ray Comfort:

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=437&commentView=itemComments


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Hal Bachman

 2005/9/21 22:45Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

YeshuaIsMyGd,

Just to clarify - I wasn't talking about people who celebrate Christmas and Easter, but the ones who show up for Christmas and Easter service only, do absolutely nothing else all year (don't pray, don't read the Bible, don't worship, etc.)and think because of these two services a year and calling themselves "Christians" they were hear "welcome into glory my good and faithful servant" on Judgment Day. That is what I mean by the Christmas and Easter crowd - not those who celebrate those holidays.

Sorry if my statement was confusing.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/9/21 23:13Profile





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