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PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Can you be saved without following God's ways? Can you be saved without repenting? (both are really the same question)


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/9/19 17:40Profile









 Re:

You cannot be saved from the wrath of God without being saved from your sin. Forgiveness and deliverance, also known as justification and sanctification, are two seperate shoes, but yet the same pair. You cannot truly walk right with God if you only wear on of those shoes, you need both.

If you continued on in sin; sinning, sinning, sinning, and never repenting, you certainly were not saved from your sin. As Tozer would say, you cannot have Jesus as your Savior now and then later decide to have Him as your Lord. That is why "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" Luke 13:3

But, Conqueror, I rejoice that you have now repented and do not continue in sin; that you are more then a conqueror of temptation through Christ.

To be truest to it's term, I would say that I do believe in what many call "discipleship". I have and am being discipled, and when I lead Christians out on the streets to witness I consider that part of discipleship for them as well.

To make an official statement, I would say this; I believe in evangelizing the unsaved, and discipling the saved.

However, I do not believe that a lack of follow up is the cause of backslidings. I do not believe that you need to follow around a believer or else he will fall away. Sure, he may fall away, backsliding is possible. But if someone decides to sin and then refuse to repent (which is what makes a backslider), then he is responsible for himself, and not any other. He is a backslider because he decided he loved his sin more then his soul; more then Christ, and he refused to obey God. If a man loves his sin, a man calling him to tell him to repent is only going to be an irritation and a frustation.

We should certainly witness to a backslider. But the reason people backslide isn't because of a lack of follow-up, it's because they love their sin (usually, though not always, caused by not preaching the Law before grace). You can't put the responsibility of a mans backsliding on any other person other then the backslider.

(ps. The name of the thread was just to get attention.)

 2005/9/20 1:47









 Re: Discipleship unBiblical

Jesse, I found this statement very helpful.

Quote:
If he had godly sorrow that lead to repentance, [b]not worldly sorrow which leads to death[/b], he would have repented and started following Christ again as Peter did.

Thanks.

Having read the whole thread so far, I guess you guys are all saying something close to each other.

There is a great deal of truth in this too - that people will believe [i]into[/i] the gospel message which was preached to them.

I'm not sure how the call to repentance should be tempered with the offer of healing (for sins committed against the person who is coming to the Lord) but, I believe the lack of separating these issues clearly, also leaves new believers weak; it leaves the church weak.

One thing which needs to be made clear to those who need healing, at an early stage in discussing their needs with them, is that Jesus died for all sin - including the sin of those who harmed them. The acceptance of this fact speeds up that new believer's ability to move on in God, even if their own deep healing will be on-going for a while to come.


On the subject of 'unscriptural' I'd say quite defintely, the Bible does not say that healing is 'in the atonement'. I'm not seeking to sidetrack this thread - was thinking of starting one on this topic myself - but for you preachers who might [i]not[/i] read a thread on [i]healing[/i], I commend to you a study on the example Jesus set in this regard, and also, a study in the Old Testament will show that healing..... ?

Well now, what does it show? I'll let you investigate for yourselves. :-)

I do recognise repentance is the core call which must sound to all.

 2005/9/20 6:25









 Re:

Sounds good.

 2005/9/20 20:44









 Re:

My conclusion is this:

Discipleship is good if it's with the right person for the right reason.

The right person would be a Christian. Someone who is genuinely desiring spiritual growth.

The right reason is to build someone up in the faith, not to keep someone in the faith. The basis of a man's salvation must be Christ, not another man.



 2005/9/21 1:06









 Re:

Um, i was thinking about this.

When Christ called the 12 forward, did He call them disciples instantly? (Not as I can remember)

And who else did Christ or anyone in the bible call a 'disciple' and WHEN were they called it? (immediatly, or after a period of time)

This is my challenge to firmly root what the bible says. (one way or the other).

 2005/9/21 11:49
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Are we all cut from the same cloth

Quote:

Lazarus1719 wrote:
My conclusion is this:

Discipleship is good if it's with the right person for the right reason.

The right person would be a Christian. Someone who is genuinely desiring spiritual growth.

The right reason is to build someone up in the faith, not to keep someone in the faith. The basis of a man's salvation must be Christ, not another man.

When Paul speaks of bearing with the weak brother the context is that of the freedom we have in Christ and the ones conviction thereof. But in your understanding is there such a thing as a weak brother as a weak believer?


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/9/21 14:55Profile









 Re: Discipleship Unbiblical

What about the relationship between Moses and Joshua?

I do believe that community as exemplified by the Acts 2:42 passage is a form of discipleship.

Maybe discipleship is a form of mentoring and accountability.

I think you might be missing the mark by saying discipleship is unbiblical.

 2005/9/21 15:11









 good word conqueror

Quote:
I do believe just leading someone to Christ and not discipling that person is like leaving someone to the wolves



amen.

 2005/9/21 15:20









 Re: oh Jesse, c'mon.......

Quote:
ps. The name of the thread was just to get attention



oh man don't that no more, I thought you believed that. the bit about discipleship being unbiblical and all.


you also wrote:
Quote:
But the reason people backslide isn't because of a lack of follow-up, it's because they love their sin



that line might be fine for ole Paris Reidhead, but in my humble opinion, sinners are [i][b]slaves[/b][/i] to their sin. Love has nothing to do with it, it's old time bondage, slavery, chains and the works. There's a blessed Saviour Who takes away the sins of the world, saves the world, Who cuts the chains and frees the captives.

forgive me, I'm preaching to the choir, but bro. Jesse, be careful that you don't fall into the trap of spiritual arrogance, any man can fall at any time for any reason. None of us are exempt from that miserable reality.

God bless you beloved brother.

 2005/9/21 15:49





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