SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Preacher Vrs Prophet

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2735
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Is the gift of Prophecy still, in your opinion n operation and if so, then does it make the person prophecying a prophet? How do you make a distinction between a person who is labeled "prophet" and one who prophecies?



I believe all the gifts of the Spirit are in operation today, but the exercise of a gift does not have to do with the calling of a person. I beleive the office can be distinguished from the gift in that it is permanent and abiding. The calling is inseperable from the man.


Quote:
In my opinion, the "office of prophet" would have been made instantly invalid with the introduction of the Holy Spirit.



What are we to make of Agabus then?

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/9/12 17:45Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

In 1 Cor 14, the apostle Paul makes no distinction between a person with the gift of prophecy, and somebody who is an "office" prophet. To him, they are one in the same. Also, when King Saul prophesied, people didn't sit around and wait for him to do it 2 or 3+ more times before they officially declared him a "prophet." And what about the lonely prophet Obadiah, who made just one prophetic statement in his entire life (so as we have recorded).

Though this is a commonly taught distinction, I believe it is entirely foreign to anything taught in Scripture. If anybody can actually show this as taught in Scripture, I'd love to see it. I've searched diligently, and heard much talk on it, yet with all the preaching on it I've never seen it demonstrated in Scripture.

Also, for those who think sporadic manifestations vs. constantly flowing manifestations makes one differ in respect to the prophetic, such isn't quite Biblical either. While one might be highly active in their prophetic ministry, others might only get words from time to time. Different people have different measures of grace, that is all. Thus, some people prophesy more frequently than others.

There is a lot of confusion out there on these subjects, with many people having many opinions and "revelations" in the matter. Therefore, I'd highly suggest:

LET'S KEEP THINGS BIBLICAL.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/9/12 17:57Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
What are we to make of Agabus then?



It is a good question. I kind of see it like this. Right after Christ left and the Holy Spirit was first introduced, there were still a need for prophecy at the time. The collective of believers were few, and at the time, they were reaching out to many of the jews. Paul was the only apostle commissioned to spread the gospel to the gentiles.

The Lord still needed to speak directly as His body (the Church) was not fully formed. He had yet to grow any chest hair, so to speak. If we think of the Church as a baby during that time, we might say he was just learning how to walk and thus needed help from Daddy in Heaven.

However, as the Church grew, it did not need our Father in Heaven to hold her hands. She could walk on her own. Thus, certain gifts faded like prophecy and healing.

Someone could also argue that prophets were needed early on as the bible had not been completed. Once God had finalized the bible, He did not need to speak through prophets. He said everything He needed to say in the bible. (Although, I am not sure I believe this personally.)

Personally, I place all my faith in Christ. I can see His hands at work in the hearts of people around the globe. Jesus is a very personal God who develops intimate and meaningful relationships with each of His followers. Using prophets to speak is impersonal.

This is not to say the Lord doesn't use people to deliver messages or the sorts. However, I think there is a distinct difference between an Old Testament prophet and how the Holy Spirit works in the world today.

God does not need to send a messenger to say, "This is what the Lord says," because the messages Christ sends speak to us in the heart through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is always in our heart. It never leaves. However, we can choose to accept it or deny it.

Therefore, within every Christian is all power and all truth. Christ abides in every Christian. Even still, we have free will and we can choose to listen or not listen. Due to the weakness of our flesh, we choose to not listen most of the time.

And so, the Spirit in us is stirred at different times when it encounters the Spirit, or when we have made the decision in our heart to listen. When this happens, we know the Spirit of God is stirring in us and speaking, even though the person speaking to us does not. For instance, we may be sitting at Church listening to a preacher and he says something that is so vivid and real, it is as if God Himself was speaking to us. It may not impact the other 500 people in the church as it did us, and the preacher himself may not know he said anything impacting, but it was exactly what we needed to hear.

The Old Testament prophets were speaking to people who did not have the Holy Spirit. They needed to know God's exact commands as they were held in bondage by the law. They needed precise and exact messages (commandments).

However, we don't need commandments(laws) for the Holy Spirit is at work in each of us. The Holy Spirit is the Word of God and He resides in the heart of every believer. We are not held in bondage by the law. We have been set free from the law by Christ. Therefore, our relationship with God is more personal. We need guidance and direction(help), not laws and rules(force).

One of the greatest blessings that the Lord gave us (I think) is each other. He made a way that we all help each other and work together as a unified body. The Holy Spirit doesn't live inside one shepard like Moses who directs and leads us all. He lives inside each of us, so that we may all give and help each other. He made it possible to share in His love with each other. That is awesome.

Anyway, that is my perspective. I could be wrong. Only Christ is right.

Blake











_________________
Blake Kidney

 2005/9/13 15:36Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
What are we to make of Agabus then?



I think it's interesting that Paul seemed unflinched by Augubus, even though the prophet was speaking thorugh the Holy Spirit.

If Augubus was a prophet the likes of Jeremiah or Isaiah, I do not think Paul would have so easily moved past his warning. Isn't it reasonable to assume that the warning was given as an admonition not to go to Jerusalem? If we were given such a word in our own day, we might conclude that God would not be with us if we ignored such a warning. Yet, Paul acted as if Augubus could predict but ultimately was without authority. So Paul went and was captured and was sent to Rome...was He being self-willed or spirit-led?

What do we make of Pauls' response, as a preacher desiring to preach, to Augubus the prophet?

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/9/13 18:58Profile









 Re:

Two things, one is for blake, one thing was brought to my memory again. "If someone says 'i don't believe in Prophesy/healing..etc' they quite have NOT experienced it by a man/women of God that is beyond reproach". Truly, i strongly believe that. And that's one reason why i left my old denomination, cause I saw a true child of God prophesy and such, so i had to 're think' what has been taught to me.

Two is for the last poster, Compton, How can you say 'paul easily moved past what Agabus had said'. I could be wrong, but look at this verse.

Acts 11:28-29 (NASB)One of them named Agabus stood up and began to indicate by the Spirit that there would certainly be a great famine all over the world And this took place in the reign of Claudius.
And in the proportion that any of the disciples had means, each of them determined to send a contribution for the relief of the brethren living in Judea.

They prepared money for the relief. It (The famine) had not happened yet and they collected what they had for the 'future' relief. Did i read it wrong?

 2005/9/15 13:08
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Thanks Yeshua,

Quote:
Compton, How can you say 'paul easily moved past what Agabus had said'.


I was thinking of the epsisode in Acts 20.

Agabus told Paul, who was determined to go to Jerusalem, what the Holy Spirit said would happen to him if he went. “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jews of Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt (Paul) ” (Acts 21:11).

Having heard this, Paul's colleagues pleaded that he should not go. Paul, inspite of the warning, still believed he was free to go. He responded, “I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus,”

I used the phrase "easily moved past" to contrast Pauls' independence to Augubus's warning against the urgent primacy that seems to be attributed to the words of our contemporary prophets. In my own experience, a modern prophet might very well believe that by ignoring the warning, Paul was "moving without God's covering or blessing." In contrast Paul still felt completely free and right in going, even though he acknowledged the danger as well as the authenticity of the prophecy.

I was just curious if others read this episode the same way.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/9/15 14:37Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Agabus simply predicted what would happen to Paul in Jerusalem, he never told Paul to avoid going... that was the counsel the brethren decided to give Paul based on the word that was spoken.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/9/15 15:46Profile









 Re:

Yup, thanks Jimmy.

 2005/9/16 12:39
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear YeshuaIsMyGod,

I am a bit confused by what you have said. Please help me to understand. You said, "I saw a true child of God." What qualifies a person as a true child of God? Are not all Christians true children of God?

You also said, "they quite have NOT experienced it by a man/women of God that is beyond reproach." The bible says that all men are bad. I am confused. How can any man be beyond reproach? What do you mean by that exactly?

Thanks,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2005/9/16 16:27Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

1 Tim 3 teaches that one may live beyond reproach, and demands that if you are going to serve as a pastor or deacon, that you live beyond reproach. In fact, Paul said he labored in order to present to Christ a bride that is spotless and above reproach. Above reproach is so conduct yourself that by all outward observation, you have no spot on your character.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/9/16 21:01Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy