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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Preacher Vrs Prophet

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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:


Therefore, Ravenhill's statement isn't totally defenseless



Actually, Ravenhill's statement is entirely defenseless. He makes a false distinction between prophet and preacher, where one is simply persecuted, and the other is setup on a royal throne. Knowing Ravenhill's works pretty well, I suspect in his comment a hint of critique towards preachers who are afraid to speak the truth. However, as it contributes towards this discussion, it is an indefensable comment. However, Ravenhill has made other such comments about prophets that simply is nothing than sheer romanticism.

Yes, many prophets were persecuted. However, some like Samuel were mostly widely accepted by the masses. In the NT, I don't see prophets like Agabaus getting tossed into prison. Seems preachers like Stephen saw a bit of trouble though.


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Jimmy H

 2005/9/12 6:38Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Is there such thing as a 100% prophet or preacher, or teacher? Doesn't the prophet study the written Word and even theology? Hasn't the teacher felt the Holy Spirit quicken the scholarly knowledge of scripture in order to prophesy?



There is often some overlap, and it can be hard to tell where one gift begins and the other ends. No doubt, such happens. All believers, prophets and preachers alike, are to study the Scriptures. This is what Samuel's so-called "School of the Prophets" probably did a lot of time doing. However, the main point I am getting at was in agreement with the other post, that other preaching/teaching gifts, while inspired, are more topical/idea oriented in nature, while the prophetic word is word from word a relation of what God is saying right now.


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Jimmy H

 2005/9/12 6:42Profile









 Re:

Quote:
This brings up a question. Is there such thing as a 100% prophet or preacher, or teacher? Doesn't the prophet study the written Word and even theology? Hasn't the teacher felt the Holy Spirit quicken the scholarly knowledge of scripture in order to prophesy?



I will not lump all modern day "prophets" in this category, but from my experience with a particular group of so-called prophets in the Charlotte area (who used to be associated with the Kansas City group)... some are poorly versed in the scriptures. One guy in particular who I have heard speak several times in a church we used to be a part of often times gave the wrong scripture references in his "Prophecies", and everytime the last book of the Bible was mentioned in a prophecy he referred to it as Revelation[b]S[/b]. This is an example of when a group of people lean too much on so-called prophetic utterances.

Personally, I believe the Word of God has given us all the divine revelation we're going to receive. Can God use a messanger to speak specifically to someone about an issue? Yes. Of course He can, and I believe He does. But a lot of prophecy I heard when I was caught up in all that does not line up with scripture, and is therefore false.

Krispy

 2005/9/12 9:03









 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:

In my opinion, I believe many teachers/preachers from time to time speak prophetically in parts of their messages, though perhaps for many, without even always being aware of the fact.



I believe that also. I think i was listening to David Jeremiah's teaching a week or so ago. Wow, how deeply did that speak to my spirit.



I thank you for posting this question of 'Prophet and Preacher'. In doing all that research that i did, really did show me the difference. Cool stuff.

 2005/9/12 10:00









 Re:

Quote:
In my opinion, I believe many teachers/preachers from time to time speak prophetically in parts of their messages, though perhaps for many, without even always being aware of the fact.



I agree with this too... I think God speaks way more often this way then when someone says "Thus says the Lord". Whenever someone says "Thus says the Lord" I automatically am skeptical. But give me a Keith Green song like Asleep In The Light, and God is speaking to my heart like nothing else other than the Bible.

Krispy

 2005/9/12 10:11
inotof
Member



Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Whenever someone says "Thus says the Lord" I automatically am skeptical.
Krispy



You know, its a funny thing, John was called a "prophet" and i cannot see a single time where he prefaced his messages with a "thus says the Lord". Nor did he do any "miricles". just a thought. I think some call John just a preacher, but the whole of his life was filled with prophetic implications.


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David

 2005/9/12 10:56Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Preacher Vrs Prophet

First, I think an important distinction needs to be made between the [i]office[/i] of a prophet and the [i]gift[/i] of prophecy. The Spirit of God can choose to exercise the gift of prophecy in any of us at any given moment but that should not be confused with the calling, or office, of a prophet. Art Katz speaks to this very well in his book, The Spirit of Prophecy.

Jeremiah 1:9-10 gives us a great definition of the prophetic call; "[i]Then the LORD stretched out His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me, "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth. See, I have appointed you this day over the nations and over the kingdoms, to pluck up and to break down, to destroy and to overthrow, to build and to plant"[/i].

The first thing mentioned in Jeremaih's call is that of judgment. It appears his first calling is to clearly identify what is false and to expose and destroy it. He sets down an alternative to the lies, a new view on reality, he restores lost vision.

The second thing mentioned in Jeremiah's calling is for him to bring a message of resurrection and restoration. The same guy who tears down, brings comfort and healing.

The prophet's message has an urgency and may often seem offensive to the hearers and I believe this urgency is what distinguishes the prophet from the teacher or pastor. I think it is typified in what Jesus said, "[i]If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin"[/i] (John 15:22).

We have to ask, is this definition of the office of prophet still valid for New Testament times? I believe it is and just becuase we don't see this calling much in our time, doesn't mean we should search for a new definition.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/9/12 12:55Profile
inotof
Member



Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 Re:

I have to wonder, Ron, I understand that you do *edit and I agree* that the office of prophet is still valid today, and i do not want to debate that issue *edit*, however i have to ask;
Is the gift of Prophecy still, in your opinion n operation and if so, then does it make the person prophecying a prophet? How do you make a distinction between a person who is labeled "prophet" and one who prophecies?


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David

 2005/9/12 13:20Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

In my opinion, the "office of prophet" would have been made instantly invalid with the introduction of the Holy Spirit.

Why would anyone need a prophet to speak truth, when truth would come directly from God through the heart by means of the Holy Spirit?

This is not to say God doesn't speak to us through other people. However, even in those times it is still the Holy Spirit speaking through that person.

Maybe I am wrong, but it just doesn't seem to make much sense that God would continue to call prophets to speak when He has the Holy Spirit.

Another thought....
You could say we are all called to be prophets, teachers, and preachers as we are all called to share the gospel through love.

In the Old Testament, were not prophets men and women who were filled with God's Spirit? And did not Moses say...

Numbers 11:29 - (NLT)
But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"

By this, we could say, every person who is filled with the Holy Spirit is a prophet.

Although, Paul would not agree with this statement, as he said the same thing in 1 Cor. 14:5. He also differentiated between different gifts and "offices" of positions.

Even still, we all have the Holy Spirit and are lead by His direction. Are we not?

Some thoughts,

Blake





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Blake Kidney

 2005/9/12 16:40Profile









 Re:

Quote:

inotof wrote:

Is the gift of Prophecy still, in your opinion n operation and if so, then does it make the person prophecying a prophet? How do you make a distinction between a person who is labeled "prophet" and one who prophecies?



Oh oh, God just brought this back to my memory when I was reading through the scriptures. *It's still "In Part", meaning not finished on the entire defination on Prophet cause God hasn't opened that door yet for me to understand it from His Throne yet*

I believe a prominant gift in my life is Prophesy, but IM NOT A PROPHET. Why? Because it doesn't flow outta me all the time as it WOULD out of a true prophet.

In the OT, people went to a prophet to 'seek what God had instored for them'. And most of the time (i say most, cause i don't know if it was 100% of the time) the prophet would say something piercing to that person.


The gift of prophesy can just come once or twice or even many times. But the prophet flows in it. There is a guy at my church, HE IS A PROPHET. He knows so much 'insight' to many people its crazy. And shares it at the right time.

I HOPE it cleared some things up. Again, the 'better' defination of a prophet isn't completed in my life from the Lord, but that's all i got for now.

Be a blessing to others.

 2005/9/12 17:43





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