"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
Niel and MrBillpro if you don't stop your squabbling I will take away our posting privildges this is not a place to argue. Man how many times niel.. its like you live off this stuff. how sad. and mr billpro "crap" is an offensive word don't use it anymore.
I was just in a conversation with a dear brother and he said this:
it grieves me that we hardly are taking note of a city being destroyed with 10,000's dead
we are more worried about the price of gas
and how this is messing up our labor day plans
how true it is.. Lord help us to see our heart condition for a dying world without Christ.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2005/9/2 17:16||Profile|
it spelled "Neil". and bill using the word "crap" is what you get steamed about....
"It's in their blood"?
but what does one expect from the "religious right"?
| 2005/9/2 23:08|
Santa Clara, CA
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."
| 2005/9/2 23:37||Profile|
| Re: World stunned as US struggles with Katrina|
thousands of people gathered in New Orleans waiting for the authorities to provide food, water and other aid
In a different thread (The truth about Katrina) Neil had shared that his sister - his black, half-caste sister, was one of those people.
EDIT: 4th Sept05:0930h UK time: that Neil's sister was one of those people turns out to have been a misapprhension / assumption on my part - I read too much into his post in that thread.
Apart from the assumptions you made in your post which directly relate to Neil's family situation, Neil's rejection of such assumptions [i]per se[/i] are not an abberation from Christianity.
Greg, I feel you could have spent just a little more effort on understanding whether Neil had more or less reason to object to what had been said.
To both you and Mike, I'm not trying to undermine your authority here, as I hope you both know (me well enough to accept) but, a few days ago, everyone wanted to know about SI members who might be caught up in this. Neil didn't burden the forum with his own interest in a resolution to the needs of those in NO, but I am honestly surprised that he could disclose [i]his own sister[/i] was in the dome there, and [i][b]no-one[/b][/i] posted a word to him about it (as far as I've noticed, apart from myself).
Frankly, I can't understand this. I wonder if anyone else had posted the same information, whether it too, would have received 'no comment'?
I mean, is he justified in suspecting prejudice against color, or, is the little interaction above much more a matter of the usual lack of explicit communication?
Whatever, I would like to have seen a [i]slightly[/i] more sensitive resolution to the interchange which had taken place, because while I accept Bill may not have had all the facts, nothing which Neil objected to, was either without some foundation or, acknowledged, subsequently... (And I'm not talking about 'rightness'.)
I confess I'm disaster-weary, but this I do see and feel.
'But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.'
'..God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that which lacked: that there should be no schism in the body; but the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.'
(Gal 3, 1 Cor 12)
| 2005/9/3 9:52|
Let me clarify "These People" could be white,red,black,brown,etc. if someone read more into that "I am sorry please forgive me" I did stop and pray about my post before I wrote it. When the Mayor of New Orleans is cussing the leader of the most Blessed nation of the face of this earth on world TV I was upset and maybe went a little to for, number one "these people" had plenty warning to get out either they did not anticipate how severe the storm would be or they chose to gamble with their lives. Let me ask you a legit question if they had this to do all over again and they knew what the results would be, how many folks do you think would stay even if they could not find transportation? my guess would be not one soul. I was upset that the people that chose to get out and left behind there homes, businesses, that maybe they were able rebuild afterwards lost their personal items and valuables to "these people" that were looting. I even got more upset when on national TV I heard Jesse Jackson say "The Government doesn't invest enough money into the poor, we have no healthcare, no jobs, what kind of a message is that right now during this kind of crisis? that would give me personally if I were in New Orleans reason to be more angry and want to get even by what ever means, he should have been on the phone locating help not condemning our Government. I was hoping that this disaster would not be a republican or democrat disaster and this I saw on TV was what it was turning into. I would hope that most here are human enough to understand that sometimes we all say words as I did in the last part of my post and I am not proud of the word I used, it came in anger because not enough was being done soon enough, while the name calling and mud slinging was taking place between the republications and democrats for that I do apologize and ask for forgiveness from every single member on this site and all those that visit here, please forgive me. I thought about just letting this thread be and not responding at all again, but when I read dorcas post I saw they did not quite understand were I was coming from totally either, that there was doubt and I have tried to clear this up as much as possible, some may not accept my apology or forgive me I will have to leave that up to God to help there, I have done all I personally know how to do in the flesh and that's apologize and repent and ask for forgiveness in Jesus name.
| 2005/9/3 10:56||Profile|
| Re: World stunned as US struggles with Katrina|
I hear your rejection of my wondering about racism and I accept it from you. OK?
What still is bothering me though, is what you said in response to
Quote:when asked if they would leave.
1/3 of the population said no
I'm not sure if we have way of knowing how many wealthy people with the means to leave, are included in that number, but, in view of your insistence that
Quote:To check this out, I went on the net to get some statistics, to flesh out the reality of your optimism and I found the 2000 census data.
"these people" had plenty warning to get out either they did not anticipate how severe the storm would be or they chose to gamble with their lives. Let me ask you a legit question if they had this to do all over again and they knew what the results would be, how many folks do you think would stay even if they could not find transportation? my guess would be not one soul.
So when Neil asked
Quote:you still insisted there was both time and opportunity. Yet, we (in the UK) hear that indeed a third of the people in NO really WERE without means of transport of their own (and I'm not bringing 'color' into this, just stating a fact), I think we can assume that the Mayor of NO knew this much about his people.
what if somebody didnt have the gas money or a car to leave?
He also knows there are nearly 110,000 minors under 15, and around 75,000 elderly. If all the able-bodied adults with jobs, stop work and take their families out, and there are still 160,000 people who need help to leave, who's going to do the helping? How many coaches would be needed to move over 50,000 people on each of those days, far enough to ensure their safety?
Really, I am just wondering, whether what you mean when you think of being in their situation - with no financial backing, everyone who can drive is leaving, and you have a choice to walk... how long would it have taken you to decide to leave and how far could you have walked your family in the remainder of the 3 days? Really, that's all I had in mind. I wasn't looking for repentance - just a practical solution to the reality they faced.
| 2005/9/3 12:51|
| Re: World stunned as US struggles with Katrina|
I have one last thought and that is this - that the gulf between what has actually happened and what you believe here
Quote:is probably too unbearably wide to hold together in your mind and spirit.
When the Mayor of New Orleans is cussing the leader of [b]the most Blessed nation of the face of this earth[/b] on world TV I was upset
The problem is, perhaps, that this political ideal has to yield, or be reformed, in the face of what God has allowed.
This would be an appropriate focus for your distress. Is that a bridge too far?
| 2005/9/3 13:11|
I wasn't looking for repentance - just a practical solution to the reality they faced.
I guess I would be the head of FEMA if I could answer this wouldn't you think?
But I will stretch my imagination a bit and say that I feel the first response burden should have been totally on the local government, and I feel with over 3 days to act they should accept the majority of fault instead of getting defensive and name calling because they failed to act appropriately.
Jesse Jackson said "The Government doesn't invest enough money into the poor, we have no healthcare, no jobs, what kind of a message is that right now during this kind of crisis?
He said "WE" does he mean himself also? he said we I don't think he is in that category do you? so what is he saying? or is he stirring?
As for as what I believe here does it really matter what I believe? I will say that I believe that there is a God that is bigger than this and he will see that all this grief,and pain will not go in vain and it will lead some in this Country back into the Loving arms of the almighty, I know this was probably not the personal answer you were digging for from me but that is my response and I hope you can accept part of it and we can move on.
I don't know about your research but I trust what you found, but while your researching check this out, they had a Levee Fund with Millions of Dollars for improvements and what did they do? Bought a Casino, Airplane, Hotels and basically "looted" that fund. Will the Media ask the Politicians in Louisiana why they didn't keep the Levees in good shape? Lets face it, if the Levees hadn't buckled, New Orleans would not have flooded. When will Mayor Ray Nagin, Gov. Kathleen (Committee) Blanco, and Sen. Mary Landru answer these questions from the Media,they need take a good look in the mirror instead of blaming George Bush?
They will never be asked these questions because they are Democrats...Seems to me, it's their own fault, it's not Bush's job to make sure the Levees are in repair. I already know I am on egg shells here with any response I make because I apparently have not been totally forgiven for my first comments by all or asking me more questions about what I said proves that, so I will try and not break any more eggs shells.
It just seems that the local governments just do not realize they live in a hurricane prone area and have done nothing to prepare for it. If they want to live there, being prepared should be a very strong part of their life. America use to be a country of strong individuals, now just a bunch of crying people putting the blame on someone else. Don't' mean to sound hard-nosed on this, but these are facts of life.
| 2005/9/3 13:39||Profile|
| Re: World stunned as US struggles with Katrina|
I hear what you say about where responsibility lies and I guess you're saying the resources were available because they could have arranged finance. I'd still like to know what the logistics of moving 160,000 people in 3 days, [i]without[/i] outside help, would have been.
I don't mind the way you chose to answer my questions. Thanks for answering.
| 2005/9/3 19:29|
I guess part of my answer to your question on how would they move 160,000 people would come from the last part of my previous post:
"It just seems that the local governments just do not realize they live in a hurricane prone area and have done nothing to prepare for it. If they want to live there, being prepared should be a very strong part of their life"
I will say that I don't think that probably any city in America could move that many with that little time, but maybe it could with the resources we have, that would probably have to be tested to prove if an appropriate response could work, I sure hope we never have to test it again. That is were the local Government introduces a plan with the state Government and the state Governments has a plan in place for Federal help and get the ball rolling on the request of the local Government, then if there is any blame it would lie with whatever Government agency dropped the ball, we all know that hindsight is 20/20 and I feel now we have learned a valuable lesson that we cannot be to causal or we even need to maybe listen to the cry wolf call from now on. You know we could look for blame in many folks from the people themselves all the way up to the US Government but placing blame after the fact just make an already terrible crisis worse in the minds of hurting people. I wished I had the silver bullet answer on how to respond to this type of crisis, and I really don't think there is one, when you have a storm from the west coast of Florida almost to the west coast of Louisiana it's way to big for man and that is were get on our hands and knees and pray that God steps in "you have not because you ask not" the word say's When He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. Sorry for the long response to your answer but I feel you did ask in a sincere way and I tried to return appropriately.
| 2005/9/3 20:26||Profile|