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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Homosexuality and the kingdom of God

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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: prayer first

Quote:
Go into our closet’s, so to speak.Being led by the Holy Spirit in Earnest PRAYER, Intercession, on Behalf of, standing in the Gap for, not seen to be doing this, but doing it in private with God.



Thank you Ellie, for these helpful words. Sometimes we focus on the sins of others and forget to pray first and formost - esp for God to work in us.

Just recently a friend told me:

Quote:
Too often we try to control what we can't and fail to control what we can.



In other words, we can't fix other people because we have no control over them, but we CAN give ourselves to God and let him work within us. I think that's the only way we can be used by God to love and influence homosexuals or any other sinners.

Here is an article that helped me understand the homosexual, and how the church can help: [url=http://www.ctlibrary.com/12076]The Not-so-Gay lifestyle from Christianity Today[/url]
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/9/12 13:45Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

In the article suggested by Sister Diane:

Quote:
4. Would they benefit from professional psychological or psychiatric care? Proper diagnosis and treatment of psychological or psychiatric needs can be a critical factor affecting change from many sexual struggles. There are those in the church who think a pastor ought not to make such a recommendation. Certain psychological and psychiatric conditions can interlock with a sexual struggle. Until these are properly treated, there may be a discouraging pattern of reverting into old sexual patterns in an attempt to medicate an untreated condition.




I do not accept this view as this represents the empty philosophies of men.

The man in the article revealed that he was given a choice. We all are given choices by God to obey and walk the narrow path or disobey and walk the broad path that leads to destruction.

The witness chose Life over death. There is no other way. Jesus is the light of life and those who follow Him will not walk in darkness.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/9/12 15:04Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:


I think that you raise a valid concern, for we can all to easily depend on man rather than God.

If the church was good at understanding what's beneath the surface of people, and would minister to them appropriately, then there would be less need for the mental health profession. Sadly that is not the case. In fact, the opposite tends to be true. The mental health profession has to help set people free from damage they incurred in religous environments. (as you will see if you read further testimonies)

Mental Health Professionals can see things that their clients cannot see in themselves - things that block them from moving forward - including trusting Christ. But as long as they are locked up, they cannot move forward. It is the person's responsibility to choose Christ - but the reality of the journey cannot be denied.

Each person is very different from another. It is no different for homosexuals. We can't just lump them together as if their one problem that counts thier sex life. Some are really messed up, as the article points out

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/9/12 15:25Profile









 Re: Homosexuality and the Kingdom of God

Hi rookie,

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you to think more deeply about what you just said in response to your quote from the article:

Quote:
Proper diagnosis and treatment of psychological or psychiatric needs can be a [u]critical[/u] factor affecting change from many sexual struggles.

Quote:
I do not accept this view as this represents the empty philosophies of men.

because I used to think exactly the same way.

What I want to put to you is this - that if a person knows the Lord, and is in need of psychological healing, why shouldn't they prayerfully enter the consulting room and work with a professional who is trained to speed up their deliberations?

When using the phrase 'empty philosophies' are you telling us you've examined the philosophies and you find them empty, or are you generalising from a position of less rather than more personal knowledge of them?

If some psychological therapies work (such as there being a right way to do some things), on what basis is their efficacy? (ie Why do they work?)

(I do realise there are good and bad psychologists and psychiatry is a completely different field of endeavour which uses drugs (where psychology does not - although a psychiatrist can refer a client to a psychologist....) and, that a person who did not already know God would be in a completely different psychological [i]need-set[/i], from a Christian - and the non-Christian might indeed be in danger from the 'empty' philosophy of man.)

 2005/9/12 15:28









 Re: Homosexuality and the Kingdom of God

[b]'It is the person's responsibility to choose Christ - but the reality of the journey cannot be denied.'[/b]

This is a very important [u]truth[/u].

If you read the testimony of Ernest O'Neill, he describes a process which took years. He was a minister of a church before he received the Holy Spirit. Yet, that was [u]God's[/u] leading...

Are we unrealistic with each other - expecting the kinds of change that even [i]God[/i] doesn't expect?

It is in the reality of the journey, that God binds us to Himself with a love we cannot deny and, which strengthens us for His next call on our commitment. 'The journey' should be valued for all the by-products He manages to extract from it; and we should respect each other in our individual struggles, not offering happy-clappy fixes, because [i]we[/i] feel uncomfortable about another's discomfort. Just how [i]do[/i] we expect to bring the flesh in line with the will of God IN REALITY! - [i][b]painlessly[/b][/i]???

Here I would add... the adult who was cultured into homosexuality from childhood, is not in the same 'freedom to choose' category, that an adult or even an adolescent might be, who had never been molested.

 2005/9/12 15:40
ellie
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189
UK

 Re: Dear roadsign,Thank you for your kind thoughts towards me.






Dear roadsign,

Thank you for your kind thoughts towards me.

I have to admit that I get upset about certain matters.
I can associate with only the smallest amount, of what these people suffer.
As I have not lived their kind of life.

I have been subject, to other people thinking that they knew best for me.
And all the while they didn’t.

This caused more suffering to me.
I attended a church for a very long time; they had no understanding of my unwell ness. I would have things said to me that caused even more damage.
I know what fear is, total isolation, bereft of human company, even Christian company. I was untouchable.
I did go forward for prayer, a lot.

The saving grace, help, comfort, has been From Our Lord he is the one I relied on constantly, being in a position of no other help. Finding that He was my help.
He is my Father.

Sympathy is something that I don't look for. Yes, I have to admit that being acknowledged as a person, who is as entitled as any other person, to be simply treat like a human being. Having people, notice improvement is also a great encouragement.

Not thought of as untouchable or a waste of time because, their prayers are not answered immediately. Or she must be doing, not according to your will God and that is why the prayer has not been answered. Must not go there as that could cost me time and she is not, you know. Just want a comfortable Christian walk. I saw it happen to particularly, two others.

To not be able to go to Church for four years and not to be called on by the church to see how I am. Well it was probably a great relief that I was not in the midst, you know might bring the reputation of the church down. You have depression and you are classed as odd. How wrong they are.

I will add here that the churches very much need, to have there eyes and ears opened to what the revival will bring into there churches. The revival they are asking for.

Now being more well without the tablets that had been making, me very ill. He has led me to a church that preaches, what the revival will bring into the church.
Thank you almighty God.

And all the while that I have been unwell. God is the only one who stood by me and of course my brothers and my Mother and others who my Mother knows, who also pray for me.

The fact road that you have a heart for these people is amazing and quite wonderful There are those who will have a very complicated, to be unravelled life.
There will be different levels, in these people’s lives.
Its the same in anxiety, fear, pain, suffering, I know some of the depths.
.

The main thing that a Christian can do is Pray into the situation. We may pray for some years before we see the fruits of the praying. Sometimes we will never know what God has done for all the People, Community, and Country etc that we pray for.
I find so much privilege in praying to Him in the Gap for others. He entrusts so much to us.

I have learnt that there is so much that I don't know. Human beings are the most complicated commodities we can ever come across, including ourselves.
Although we do have some whom God has refined. That have less complication who are given understanding and knowledge by God who leads them, being willing to be led by Him.

I found early on in my faith to rely on God and not man. This has led me to pray to Him, he knows everything about me.
It is He who does the most revealing to me, about me, this is a very Good thing because it is God alone who is judging me. Some of these things might be made known to others as we seek prayer or for testimony etc.
There are of course, sometimes words of wisdom that God gives, from one Christian to another.
He chooses how he will reveal, that which I need to know.

Although I have had a lot of physical suffering, I have caused some of this by un forgiveness and all other words that attach to that.
I have to let go, I have to forgive, I have to do a lot, of things.
I need the help Of God. God is most of all, who we need.

I need to be led by him and to let go of self, leading.
I actually feel that, I can't let go of my leading because I see life at the other side of this, to be empty, dark, void. I think this is because the thing that is familiar to me is for me to lead, in make decisions, paying the bills etc. I am afraid to let go totally because I don't know what is at the other side.

It’s like jumping in the deep end when your not a strong swimmer and having the fearful thought that you will not survive, but that you will sink. ‘The unknown.’


You could liken much of what I have said, to Gay people. Complex and complicated and the need for God to do his Mighty works in their lives. As we pray for them, standing in the Gap. Humanly coming alongside as God leads, talking with them. God will choose people who he can gift with the ability, to come alongside these people.
Your heart roadsign, seems to be maybe a heart and life that God can equip to meet the needs of these people.
I know that my main calling, is in another area.


To speak on my behalf, I have done and continually look to Him. He has done mounds for me, Glory to you Almighty God. He is mine and I am his. Amen

Help me dear Lord to let go of many things. Amen.




ellie

 2005/9/12 17:07Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: They churches role re homosexuals

While I think a valid concern has been raised - re the use of mental health workers, I posted the article mainly to give us, the CHURCH, some information for how WE can help. The more we learn how WE can help, the less there will be a need for those outside of the church. IMHO.

The church has a hard task cut out for her. Unfortunately her ungodly behaviors over recent years -ex: angry protest marches and unloving responses to gays have marred her credibility. So now we have a big dividing wall between two opposing people groups.

Unfortunately even the church is polarizing into opposing camps. Some respond to the harsh judgmental responses by going the opposite way - thinking that they love the homosexual by telling them that they are fine the way they are. That is hopeless.
(Mind you, implying to any church attenders that they are good Christians when they are still lost in their sins is most unloving. There is no hope in that!)

If we can, at least, try to break down the barriers of hostility, then maybe we can be better able to win the trust of those homosexuals who would like to be set free. Many feel hated and undeserving of God's forgiveness. Oh, how desperately they need to see that Christ loves them!!! Who's going to show them? Is that not the function of the church?

It seems that the evangelical church's failure to be as Christ to homosexuals enables all kinds of opposing forces to gain momentum.

I think the article above put out by Christianity Today for church leaders demonstrates a step in the right direction.

Diane




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Diane

 2005/9/12 17:07Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Thank you Ellie

My dear Ellie!
Your testimony brought tears to my eyes. As I was reading I kept thinking: If I was suffering the shame and pain of rejection – ex homosexuality, and was craving for healing and a connection with a loving human, it would be Ellie. I would know that you would walk with me, weep with me, listen to me, pray with me, and not judge or reject me. You would tenderly touch my brokenness and give me hope. You would be as Christ to me.

You may not feel called to a ministry as such, but, I suspect that God would not hesitate to bring someone to you who may need that kind of human touch. Your own trials might just be your richest assets – in God’s economy.

God bless you. And thank you or sharing!!!
Diane


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Diane

 2005/9/12 17:30Profile
ellie
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189
UK

 Re:Thankyou roadsign. I was in tears as I wrote my thread.


I was in tears, as I wrote my thread.
I constantly cried to God about the Church. What they did not realise was how much God, was present in my life and how much I revered him which I still do.


After posting, I saw, you had all been busy writing threads.

My Experience. With Psychiatric doctors nurses. Etc.

I have been under Psychiatry and I was not listened to. I was wrongly diagnosed; if they had reduced the tablet I would have got better, instead they gave ECT.

They realised two years later, while I was still sufferring.
That instead of giving me ECT, that all they had to do at that time, was reduce and then remove the tablet that they said I had to take.

I was made more ill through three tablets, misdiagnosed, given ECT, and suffered to the extreme with physical debilitation and short-term memory amnesia, I felt constantly suicidal, I could not go anywhere I was too ill, for more than 4 years. Until they finally took notice, of my even more worsening physical condition.
One Psychiatrist, who is supposed to be one of the top psychiatrists in the country, did all of this to me.

Apparently the day staff on the day ward did give their opinion, I believe this differed from the Psychiatrist’s, who went ahead with ECT. I now have a problem with my recall memory, which I already had through taking, one of those tablets before ECT.

I am also now at risk because of the tablets, of developing other brain debilitating desease. We just have to wait and see if my brain deteriorates. It is serious but I thank God that i can also laugh at these rediculous cercumstances, under the name of medical care and of course the Manufacturers of tablets.

Please God I truly ask you that these terrible things will not happen and that you will heal my brain of any damage.And restore to me life in abundance. Amen Glory to you







All this is why I have asked, as a Christian am I aloud to sue NHS Service.

This was not just a mistake.

My GP is in shock because. I actually went through many more side effects than I have written about.



Two good Christian here in my home Town, who are reliable, have said yes I can sue
Another has said no.




I have no trust, whatsoever in the, Department of Psychiatry. They have too much, un-questioned authority. They are a regime, they, are in charge.






There is a Retired Christian Psychiatrist up North here and I believe more in the country. Who saw a lot, of patients in his time and trained a lot, of people to Council many kinds of problems. Perhaps Christian people might consider this kind of profession. To enable, people to come into the faith with Christian biblical way input I am not sure if fees have to be paid for this. I did not get to see any of them, as I could not get to the place where they hold this.



ellie


I look forward to the time, when God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and me, are going to have a wonderful journey.
Hallelujah.

 2005/9/12 19:00Profile
ZIONSLAVE
Member



Joined: 2003/11/29
Posts: 20
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

The sin of homosexuality is nothing compared to the awesomeness of God. Psychiatry is a hoax. Its a mans attempt to be God. No human will ever be able to heal anyones mind. Depression, anxiety, mental disorders, etc. are all results of sin on the part of the person or someone who has affected that person. Sin. There was no need for anti-depressants in the garden of eden. The Lord does not need us to fufill his tasks. We are placed on this planet for one reason alone. That is the total surrender of our lives in love and pure adoration and worship to him. Once we begin to think we deserve any kind of help besides what he offers we are being selfish and sinful. Purity and joy comes from redemption and sacrifice of our lives. Homosexuality is an abomination. Jesus had no patience for sin. Neither should we. Dont enable people. Dont make them believe they have time to start a "healing process" healing comes immediately when you renounce your sin. We are not promised tomorrow. The only way you can show love to people is by sharing truth. Dont coddle sinners. Be clear to them in love. There are no excuses that make sin "understandable" to God. Everyone has sin and excuses. Everyone has someone to blame. We are commanded to be lights. A light does not shelter darkness. It disperses it. To some it will seem that I am being col. Im not. I am being clear. Thats where a lot of Christians fail there neighbors. We MUST love people to the kingdom. That however does not involve making them feel good about their evil lives. We are commanded to HATE sin. Did you know that? LOVE the sinner HATE the sin. Be Honest. Jesus is not a pushover.


_________________
tommy

 2005/9/12 21:51Profile





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