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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : If a sinfull person (without knowing Jesus) would have the choice between heaven and hell?

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ByHisSpirit
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Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 16


 If a sinfull person (without knowing Jesus) would have the choice between heaven and hell?

Dear Brothers and Sister,

I have a question concerning a sermon our pastor preached some time ago. I wasn't there myself, but my friend was there and he had some questions about the sermon. So I thought that maybe you guys could help out.

The reasoning in the sermon was as follows. Sinfull people, in the hypothetical case that they could choose between heaven and hell, wouldn't be able stand the light of heaven and they would even prefer hell beyond heaven, because they would feel better at home.

During this sermon, the pastor didn't mention any bibleverses... Although I can understand the reasoning behind it (the confrontation between a holy God which is absoluty morally perfect and our imperfections and sins), I am wondering where I can find bible verses which on which this teaching is based. In the conversation my friend had with out pastor (which I think is a wonderfull and good sheperd of his flock), our pastor mentioned John 3:19-21... But to my friend, this didn't seem all to convincing.

So I would like to put this question before you... Do you know any bibleverses on which this is based?

Thank you very much,

Walking with Him,
Fernando

 2005/9/1 3:27Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: If a sinfull person (without knowing Jesus) would have the choice between heaven

Quote:
The reasoning in the sermon was as follows. Sinfull people, in the hypothetical case that they could choose between heaven and hell, wouldn't be able stand the light of heaven and they would even prefer hell beyond heaven, because they would feel better at home.


Hi Fernando
So how do we answer your questions about your friend's perception of your pastor's sermon? :-D This really is very hypothetical but while the first part of this [u]may[/u] be true, that the sinner would find heaven a very uncomfortable place, the second half is [u]certainly[/u] not true. There will be no comfort in eternal torment, not even relative 'comfort'. Nor will 'hell' ever become 'home' to its inmates. The concept of 'home' is part of God's blessing to all peoples; 'hell' will be without any of God's blessings. No beauty, no friends, no family, no home; nothing to 'enjoy' from a loving Father.

An old English preacher used to say 'hell, is truth seen too late'. That's not a biblical definition but it is a true perception nevertheless.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/9/1 4:42Profile
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Your question reminds me of one of Sadhu Sundar Singh's visions. He shares

Quote:
...I was also told that the love of God operates even in Hell. God does not shine in His full light, because those there could not bear it, but He gradually shows them more and more light and by and by brings them on and moves their conscience towards something better, although they think that the desire is entirely their own. Thus God works on their minds from within, something in the same way, though in the opposite direction, as that in which Satan suggests temptation to us here. Thus, what with God's work within and the Light without, almost all those in Hell will ultimately be brought to Christ’s feet. It will perhaps take millions of ages, but when it is attained they will be full of joy and thankfulness towards God: though they will still be less happy than those who have accepted Christ on earth. Thus Hell also is a training school, a place of preparation for Home. Those in Hell know that it is not their home because they suffer there. Men were not created for Hell and therefore do not enjoy it and, when there, desire to escape to Heaven. They do so, but they find Heaven even more uncongenial than Hell, so they return. But this convinces them that there is something wrong in their lives, and thus they are gradually led to repentance.



This, obviuosly, is not scripture. Just one mans testimony of what he learned by experience. I have always liked 'the Sadhu' but usually shy away from such visions as these (without ruling out that such can occur). I believe that the man was a genuine christian. If this 'vision' was not actualy from the Lord I would suggest that it may have just been an internal experince of his own which reflected a truth that he had learned: That people are miserable in sin, but would be even more miserable in God's presence without repentance.

So I think that the idea of people being 'at home' in hell is untrue. "Lord you have been our dwelling place from all generations" God is the true dwelling place of all humanity. But we must first be made to fit.

 2005/9/1 6:47Profile









 Re:

Can you please rephrase this..

Quote:
Sinfull people, in the hypothetical case that they could choose between heaven and hell, wouldn't be able stand the light of heaven and they would even prefer hell beyond heaven, because they would feel better at home.

 2005/9/1 22:53
ByHisSpirit
Member



Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 16


 Re:

Hi,

I am sorry for my crappy english ;-) I hope this message turns out better ;-)

I guess the thought is something like this... If you were to die today, and you hadn't put your faith in Jesus Christ, you couldn't bear to stand before a holy God in heaven. Because you would see your sins in His Light so clearly without a way of gettng rid of them.

So you flee from God.... Hell would seem like a place of comfort to you, a place of relief, because God wouldn't be there.

That is what I think the pastor said. As I told you, I wasn't there ;-) (I know, it's a complicated situation, but I will explain).

The passage from the bible our pastor mentioned afterwards to show the validity of his theory is from John 3:19-21.

My friend questioned our pastor on this, because he didn't think it was correct that you would be 'comforted' there and he asked for other scriptures that could show him where the pastor based his 'theory' on. Because John 3:19-21 didn't seem adequate to him. They had a small discussion and the pastor asked my friend to check this with several people in the church.

Since I read (lurk) often on this forum, and know that there are many Spirit-filled christians out here, who could help me, I posted this question.

Thanks a lot,

In Christ,
Fernando

 2005/9/2 3:28Profile





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