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GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:



The early settlers of the colonies had charters to establish their own governments in the colonies. After enduring the hardships and dangers of establishing this land, the English government came here and took these agreements away. {This is much like being a trucebreaker and a thief.} The English government made the effort to tax the people without giving them a voice about this and the colonies were also forced to trade with England only. King George took the position that it was the chief duty of the colonists to submit to him.

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2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

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Notice in verse 3 it says trucebreakers. It seems to me that this is some of what the English government was doing with the charters.

Also, notice verse 4 where it says traitors. It seems to me that this is what some our doing right now as a war is going on by not supporting our efforts to root out an evil group of people that want to force their way on the people of Iraq. Someone said, "war is sin". From my position being a traitor is sin.

You mentioned the Methodist John Wesley. It's my understanding that he did not believe the colonies should revolt. Over on this side of the waters, Francis Asbury did.

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/8/29 13:53Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


No doubt that if the Communists would get control of this countries wealth they would be able to do a lot of humanitarian programs with the wealth that is here. Do you really want the extreme left to have control here as is going on in Venezuela? It seems to me that the votes have been bought.

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/8/29 14:12Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

Brother Gary wrote:

Quote:
The English government made the effort to tax the people without giving them a voice about this and the colonies were also forced to trade with England only. King George took the position that it was the chief duty of the colonists to submit to him.



This is the pursuit of all nations. Back then this form of economy was called Colonialism. Before Colonialism, one was subject to the rule of Feudal Lords. Before that, one was subjected to those who had the power to pillage.

Today we have evolved into just another form of economy which is still based on the precepts founded on the depravity of man.

James 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

This Scripture speaks to the [b]last days.[/b] What signs of evil do we see in these days?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/29 15:11Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

Brother Gary wrote:

Quote:
It seems to me that the votes have been bought.



I believe it was Plato who first envisioned the concept "democracy." He wrote back then a warning. He basically stated that if the nation was ruled by the majority, the majority would strip the minority of their wealth. This is a result again based on the depravity of man.

People like Jefferson and Madison understood this principle quite clearly. Back then only white men who owned land could vote,

Dan. 2:36 “This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37 You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38 and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. 39 But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

With each government the quality diminishes according to Scripture. I believe this Scripture speaks to the quality of "democracy." 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

After this form of government has passed, Jesus will establish His kingdom for a 1000 years.


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/29 15:27Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

BBC


Venezuela seeks action in US row

Hugo Chavez is an outspoken critic of the US

Venezuela's president says his government will take legal action against a US TV evangelist who called for US agents to kill him.

Hugo Chavez said Venezuela might even seek to extradite Pat Robertson. He also warned he would complain to the UN if the US failed to take action.

Mr Robertson has apologised for his comments, which came amid already tense US-Venezuela relations.

On Sunday, US civil rights leader Jesse Jackson lent support to Mr Chavez.

On a visit to Venezuela, Mr Jackson denounced Mr Robertson's assassination call as immoral and illegal.

He called on the US Justice Department to investigate the matter.

The US State Department has called Mr Robertson's comments "inappropriate".

Extradition

"I announce that my government is going to take legal action in the United States... to call for the assassination of a head of state is an act of terrorism," Mr Chavez said in a televised speech.

"If the US government does not take action that it must take, we will go to the United Nations and the Organization of American States to denounce the US government," Mr Chavez said.

Mr Chavez, who has frequently charged that the US are plotting to kill him, said Mr Robertson was "crazy" and "a public menace".

On Sunday, Rev Jackson said the US and Venezuela should work out their differences through diplomacy.

Diplomatic tension

Mr Robertson's comments came amid tense relations between Caracas and Washington.

President Chavez is a regular critic of Washington, which regards the left-wing leader as a possible source of instability in the region.

The Venezuelan leader has said that US President George W Bush will be to blame if he is attacked.

A week ago, Pat Robertson told viewers of his influential TV show, the 700 Club, that the US should act on Mr Chavez's recurrent complaints that the US was allegedly trying to assassinate him.

The two nations have recently broken off co-operation on combating illegal drugs, though America still buys Venezuelan oil. The nation is the world's fifth-largest producer.



I wonder what would happen to some one with a similar public notoriety as Pat Robertson, if they called for President Bushes assasination?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/29 15:38Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I don't know for a fact but I would bet the biggest oil field on earth is under israel.


Have you not heard the Israeli joke that 'we wandered for forty years and settled in the only place in the Middle East which has no oil; now that's what I call guidance!'


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/29 17:14Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Wasn't King George and the nation of England a Christian nation?


England has never been and can never be a Christian nation, and King George was German. I don't know whether or not King George was a Christian. What makes you think he was?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/29 17:22Profile









 Re: have you noticed......

that all those who loudly and publicly wrap our Lord Jesus in the cloth and provisions of both a political party AND a nation's flag have begun to be exposed as greedy murderous hypocrites.....Karl Rove, Tom Delay and now Pat Robertson.


You know, I've been reading thru the Old Testament, and am in 1Samuel, reading the Portion where the people start to clamor and squeal for a king like other nations.......God does have a lot of patience.

I really pray that the church starts to walk away from political parties and their needs, coz their needs and their requirements are NOT of the Lord's.

A TRUE Godly man does NOT call for the assassination of another nations leader. A true Godly man does not betray oaths he made. A true Godly man does not get involved in financial scandal and tomchicanery.

When will the church come out of the right wing?

I ask that not to say, when will it come out of the right wing to go into the left wing......no, thats not what I say. But when will we do what is right, instead of what is right wing.

We say we're in Iraq because we wish to bring democracy to that beleagered nation, but since the day Hugo Chavez was duly elected by the Venezulan people, this administration has worked overtime to overthrow him.

I do not admire President Bush, nor Karl Rove, nor Tom DeLay, nor Pat Robertson, nor James Dobson, nor D. James Kennedy.

They profess Christ, but their actions and their words to me, testify otherwise.

As a follower of Jesus, these are men I would NOT model my walk after.

either you are a slave of Christ , or a whore of the republican party ......you can't have it both ways.

Please forgive me if I offended anyone, just unburdening myself and discussing an issue I believe will absolutely destroy the church of Jesus in the U.S. , because it will destroy our witness to the world.

I don't have my Bible in front of me this second, but didn't Paul pose the question what do followers of light have in common with belial?

love, Neil

 2005/8/29 17:30
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
After this form of government has passed, Jesus will establish His kingdom for a 1000 years.

This is an important point, Jeff. Democracy is a very modern concept in its current outworking. I am very concerned at the Western world's determination of imposing democracy on the rest of the world. Many years ago I talked with some church leaders who were re-examining their own church history in which a powerful leader, George Jeffreys, had led a break-away from the denomination he had founded! One old man commented sadly; "I saw, in the end, that Jeffreys wanted us to be free to do what he wanted". Is this the motive of the 'democrats' too?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/29 17:34Profile









 Re:

i wish more of us saw it clearly brother Neil. You know sometimes, i say to myself some days, especially of what has transpired since the election of 2000, YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME! Aren't you amazed after you have read Judges, what is transpiring in our country? It will even get better when you reach Isaiah?
I still shake my head by the blindness of the mass... i.e, the mass of those that profess Christ as their Lord.

 2005/8/30 1:54





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