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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Matthew 5:32

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Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re: Matt 5:32

Quote:
We know Jesus came to fulfil the law.



I don't think that it means that Jesus came to keep the law. What I understand is that Jesus was the fulfillment of the law. Just like the cross was the fulfillment of the feast of the Passover, and Pentcost (Acts 2) was the fulfillment of the feast of Pentecost.

Manfred

 2005/8/23 7:11Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi GrannieAnnie,

Quote:
Cherio, pip-pip, for now.



Sorry I didn't get this part?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/23 8:13Profile









 Re: Matt 5:32

Quote:
I don't think that it means that Jesus came to keep the law. What I understand is that Jesus was the fulfillment of the law.

Manfred,

I know what you mean about the fulfilment of the law, but there was something else going on too, when He said this sort of thing:

Matthew 12
11 Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?
12 "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is [u]lawful[/u] to do good on the Sabbath."

This is thrown into sharp relief by the arch-lawkeepers (or makers of man-made 'law') in their immediate reaction.....

14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.

He was 'keep'ing the law at a spiritual level which, was soo 'New Covenant', it showed up the state of heart of those Old Covenant keepers.

With regard to Matthew 5:32, if anyone was qualified to look another man in the eye and say something about fornication being unacceptable, it was Him. That's really all I was meaning by my mention of the law - to draw attention to the [i]fact[/i] that He was indeed keeping it as well as fulfilling it.

Fornication prior to marriage had always been against the law for Jews, but if there is a good reason for Him to mention it here, it is to bring the Gentiles on to the same ground.

Another thing I've noticed in Matthew is his quoting from Isaiah, prophecies which spoke promises to the Gentiles. Until I understood Matthew is known for writing to the [i]Jews[/i], I didn't really 'see' this significance; it is as if he is saying to the Jews they need to grasp the truth now, for it has already been passed to the rest of the world.

 2005/8/23 9:56
Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re: Mat 5:32

You may have a point. But I note that the word "lawful" in Mt.12:12 does not come from the word "law" (nomimos), but is a composite word (exesti) of "ek" and "eimi" which should be better translated "permitted" as it is used elsewhere.

Manfred

 2005/8/23 11:04Profile









 Re: Matthew 5:32

Quote:
You may have a point. But I note that the word "lawful" in Mt.12:12 does not come from the word "law" (nomimos), but is a composite word (exesti) of "ek" and "eimi" which should be better translated "permitted" as it is used elsewhere.

Ah! Thank you for further insight, from your scholarly answer. :-)

I've just read the document recommended by RonB through a link which came a little way into the discussion he recommended. It can be found here.

[url=http://www.rbc.org/ds/q0806/q0806.html#point5]http://www.rbc.org/ds/q0806/q0806.html#point5[/url]

I would be interested in whether it answers your earlier question.

Quote:
Ron,

That is my understanding too, but can it be substantiated by the Word ? I'd like to know.

Manfred

What do you think?

 2005/8/23 11:44
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Until I understood Matthew is known for writing to the Jews, I didn't really 'see' this significance; it is as if he is saying to the Jews they need to grasp the truth now, for it has already been passed to the rest of the world.



I understand this position, but it is helpful to realise that before Acts 10 the entire Church was comprised of Jews with the exception of some 'God fearing Gentiles' who had assimilated into Judaism. Jesus was teaching Jews primarily and pointed this out when he told the woman it was not meet to give that which was holy to the 'dogs.' Whether they be Samariatan or Greek, etc.

I believe it to be consistent with the whole of the revelation of the New Testament that Christ came to 'fulfill' the Law, not to destroy it. His 'life' put into practice what the letter was powerless to present. This is what I see in John 1. He was the embodiment of the Law. He is our example in all things. his life was an expression of the fulness of the Spirit- both in fruits and gifts. And as it is written, "... as many as are led by the Spirit THEY are the sons of God." The letter killeth- but the Spirit giveth life.

The doing away with the 'law' was not to open the floodgates to antinomianism. The reason being is that we were called up to a higher place of Spirit filled living- that flowed with the personality of God. This is the demonstration of the outworking of the nature of God in the life of the Spirit filled believer. It is called 'fulfilling all righteousness'.

[i]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. [/i](Romans 3:31)

[i]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[/i] (Matthew 5:17)

[i]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.[/i]

Imagine that through our life of walking in the Spirit we are actually 'fulfilling' the law of God. In the life of Christ it was both a demonstration (fulfillment) of the Law in terms of the original intent of its requirements- in conjunction with 'fulfillment' of the 'predictive prophetic' aspect of certain prophecies within the law. I believe there to be a study here in that we cannot seperate the one from the other. The 'prophetic' things of God consist both in [u]fruits[/u] and [u]gifts[/u]. In the sunful and deceptive world in which we live we need the gifts of the Spirit in operation so that we can fullfill the place that God has called us as believers. You need look no farther than the gift of 'discernment' to see how having that one gift in operation within the Church and our lives individually will keep us from much stumbling.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/23 12:06Profile









 Re: Matthew 5:32

Quote:
I understand this position, but it is helpful to realise that before Acts 10 the entire Church was comprised of Jews with the exception of some 'God fearing Gentiles' who had assimilated into Judaism...

[b]I believe it to be consistent with the whole of the revelation of the New Testament that Christ came to 'fulfill' the Law, not to destroy it. His 'life' put into practice what the letter was powerless to present. This is what I see in John 1. He was the embodiment of the Law. He is our example in all things. his life was an expression of the fulness of the Spirit- both in fruits and gifts[/b]. And as it is written, "... as many as are led by the Spirit THEY are the sons of God." The letter killeth- but the Spirit giveth life.

...In the life of Christ it was both a demonstration (fulfillment) of the Law in terms of the original intent of its requirements- in conjunction with 'fulfillment' of the 'predictive prophetic' aspect of certain prophecies within the law...'

'His 'life' put into practice what the letter was powerless to present.'

Robert, I enjoyed this exposition, thank you. :-)

 2005/8/23 13:29









 Re: Matthew 5:32

"Jesus said that divorce is wrong "except for sexual immorality." The Greek word He used was [i]porneia[/i], a term covering a wide range of sexual sins. When used in a sentence alongside [i]moicheia[/i] (adultery), [b]it denoted a sexual sin involving at least one unmarried person or a perverted form of sexual behavior[/b]. The feminine form of this word porne means "prostitute." The masculine pornos denoted either a man who was promiscuous or who engaged in perverted sexual behavior. On rare occasions, when specified by the context, it referred to a marriage of close relatives...

In sanctioning divorce for sexual immorality, Jesus also permitted remarriage for people thus divorced. A careful study of the Bible passages dealing with divorce makes clear a principle that we can apply: [b]Whenever a divorce occurs on grounds God has declared valid, that divorce carries with it the right of remarriage[/b]"

The above quote is from [url=http://www.rbc.org/ds/q0806/q0806.html#point5]http://www.rbc.org/ds/q0806/q0806.html#point5[/url]

philologos,

Is this reference to an 'unmarried' person, part of the reason Jesus may be referring to pre-marital misdemeanour by the lady in question?

Do you think He means ONLY pre-marital misdemeanour, for the New Covenant?

 2005/8/23 14:14
Manfred
Member



Joined: 2005/4/4
Posts: 342
Continental Europe

 Re:

Quote:
I've just read the document recommended by RonB through a link which came a little way into the discussion he recommended. It can be found here.

http://www.rbc.org/ds/q0806/q0806.html#point5

I would be interested in whether it answers your earlier question.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ron,

That is my understanding too, but can it be substantiated by the Word ? I'd like to know.

Manfred
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think?



The word "fornication" appears but once in this whole article, so I didn't find the answer to my question there; that is why I asked Ron about it.

Manfred

 2005/8/23 16:58Profile









 Re:

I'm sorry but ~ "We interrupt this program to bring a special bulletin" ...


Hey Robert up there.... Actually I said it wrong, it's from an old english saying for "see ya later" sort of thing.

Should have been pip-pip-cheerio ... or something closer to that.


We now bring you back to your regular programing.


(sorry for interrupting here folks):

 2005/8/24 0:15





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