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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Matthew 5:32

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 Matthew 5:32

A modern dictionary has thrown up these definitions of fornication and adultery. Particularly fornication, in not mentioning the unmarried status of one or both parties, reads like muddy water to me, when trying to make sense of Matthew 5:32.

fornication
(noun) : consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other ; compare ADULTERY


adultery
(noun) : voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband also : an act of adultery


Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.


We all know that the modern church takes this use of the word 'fornication' to mean [i]after the consummation of the marriage has taken place[/i], but [b]my main question is[/b], how is it then, that this woman can be married by another and they are [i]not[/i] committing adultery the same as if she has been divorced for some other reason?

Until last night, I was completely clear in my mind, that the reason it was ok to divorce the woman (and not be causing her to commit adultery) was that she had committed the fornication BEFORE she was married.

Help?

 2005/8/21 7:26









 Re: Matthew 5:32

The basic consensus of most scholars, is that because she was not divorced for a 'Biblically legal' reason (fornication/adultery), then in God's covenant of marriage, the Divorce is not a legal divorce so, she is still married to this nut-job that dumped her, for no good Scripturally legal reason.

And if this ever happens to some poor lady out there ... I can guarantee you, that God will "WORK ALL THINGS OUT TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD TO THOSE WHO LOVE HIM AND ARE CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE."

He sees the beginning from the end, and he knows what's going to happen before it happens, and if this poor lady is right with God, then He has good reason to allow this situation to happen to her.... that only He knows, and we may not know 'why' until we see Him, but in the meantime ... this should draw her closer to the Lord, who is her Eternal Husband anyways.

Paul, had even said, "better not to marry", so you can more fully live for the Lord 1 Corth 7.

I guess for that poor lady (or man), that's where the "test of faith" would really come in and where the rubber meets the road on their staying pure before God.

I suppose it's a sad state, but knowing that marriage is just temporary anyway, and life is just a breath or vapor, then Looking for our Savior to spend Eternity with HIM, outweighs this earthly relationship with another human, by a million fold.

Single women or men, according to Paul, can have a deeper or more 'freed-up time' with the Lord.

Doesn't of course make marriage bad, but I think Paul explains it better himself in 1 Corth 7.

Worse things can happen, then not being able to get married again ;-) .

 2005/8/21 8:22
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Matthew 5:32

Quote:
A modern dictionary has thrown up these definitions of fornication and adultery.


a [i]dictionary[/i], and especially a [b]modern[/b] [i]dictionary[/i], is always the last place to go when trying to understand biblical statements. ;-)

There has been some discussion on the topic previously in
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=3334&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Divorce and re-marriage; what does God say?[/url]


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/21 12:18Profile









 Re: Matt 5:32

Quote:
when trying to understand biblical statements

30 years ago, the definition in a 'modern dictionary' was different - I just couldn't find an old dictionary to quote...

The ease with which the Lord's words are repeated by Matthew, leads me to believe Jesus was not saying something new about marriage; although He doesn't specifically say public stonings should stop. That public stonings did stop, suggests to my mind that those early Christians understood forgiveness of one's past was total - 'but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified' 1 Cor 6:11.

Still, I need to be surer why Jesus separated fornication from adultery as a legit reason for divorce.

 2005/8/21 12:35
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
30 years ago, the definition in a 'modern dictionary' was different - I just couldn't find an old dictionary to quote...

I don't know that an older dictionary would have been much different. Fornication was usually defined as pre-marital sexual intercourse, and adultery as post-marital sexual intercourse. The point I was making is that, whatever the age of the dictionary, we cannot use them to define biblical words. That usually results in us getting our theology from a dictionary. The question is, as always, what does the Bible mean by these two words?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/21 12:47Profile









 Re: Matt 5:32

Quote:
Fornication was usually defined as pre-marital sexual intercourse, and adultery as post-marital sexual intercourse.

I don't want to jump to any conclusions... In the Bible?

Quote:
The point I was making is that, whatever the age of the dictionary, we cannot use them to define biblical words. [b]That usually results in us getting our theology from a dictionary[/b]. The question is, as always, what does the Bible mean by these two words?

Are you saying there [b][i]is significance[/i][/b] in the Lord's selection of the word 'fornication'?

EDIT added: sorry I missed the link in your earlier post. Will take a look, thanks. EDIT end.

 2005/8/21 13:58









 Re:

Dorcas,

Before you started this thread I gave you Thayer's definition of fornication.

We should NEVER look in Webster's for the definition of A Bible word.

It's the word, as I told ya, where we get our word "pornography".

I'll put it here again.

G4202
πορνεία
porneia
Thayer Definition:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mar_10:11,Mar_10:12
2) metaphorically the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
Part of Speech: noun feminine.

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4203

and being from 4203, here is that one ...

G4203
πορνεύω
porneuō
Thayer Definition:
1) to prostitute one’s body to the lust of another
2) to give one’s self to unlawful sexual intercourse
2a) to commit fornication
3) metaphorically to be given to idolatry, to worship idols
3a) to permit one’s self to be drawn away by another into idolatry
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4204

And on it goes, from 4202, to, from this 4204 coming from 4205 and on .

Please get the e-sword or something, so you have a Greek/Hebrew quick dictionary and if anyone else ever gives you Webster's again ....

Pass this on to them. Webster's is not Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic. And "Hoy Vey !" :evil:


Love you friend,

me again


Gotta edit here, new info received.

If ya can't download e-sword, just go 'wherever' and at the least get/have a Strong's Concordance, with Dictionary in back.
Dictionaries and Concordances are NOT "Commentaries".
Love you !!! :-)

 2005/8/21 18:19
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
EDIT added: sorry I missed the link in your earlier post. Will take a look, thanks. EDIT end.


I'll let you do that first, then if you want to ask the questions again, please do.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/21 18:28Profile









 Re: Matt 5:32

EDIT: 1st sentence 2nd paragraph: added 'who' and the parenthesis.


Hi Annie,

The definitions I posted in this thread, are transferred from the thread 'divorce statistics'.

I needed to use them here, to show how Christians (me included) who aren't used to dealing in the original languages or culture, may inadvertently add many assumptions to a strong Bible concept.

MrBillPro kindly posted the aforementioned definitons and I'm not sure which dictionary he used.

The definition you sent me earlier, only proved I could not use either it, [i]or[/i] an English dictionary, to justify the way I read that verse, in which [i]I see[/i] Jesus upholding virginity as a starting place for marriage.


 2005/8/21 23:11
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: Matthew 5:32

Adultery is the undermining of God's plan. Any deviation is adultery of the heart. If you have gotten off His path, you are undermining, or adulterating it. Any sexual relationship outside the marriage of one man and one woman is adultery.

Webster was great, but his book is slowly getting corrupted. It's ridiculous some of the words being included.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2005/8/22 8:19Profile





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