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AgapeLove81
Member



Joined: 2005/8/4
Posts: 47
Albany, GA

 Least Of All Gifts

Why is it that the least of all gifts is the one that makes the most controversy? The gift of tongues has been one of the biggest arguments in the church today. The people that speak it swear by it, and the people that have never spoken in them deny it exists. This goes back to the denominational issue a few threads back. The purpose of tongues has changed since they were first introduced in Acts. No longer is it only for spreading the word among unbelievers, but in my opinion, now most of all to edify the person speaking.

[i]Act 2:3-4 “And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” [/i]

There began the gift that would change the world both then and now. I know that the bible states many things about the usage of tongues and about the ceasing of tongues, but it also states the time they will cease.

[i] “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.” I Co 13:8-13 KJVA[/i]

[i] “Though the prophet's word may come to an end, tongues come to nothing, and knowledge have no more value, love has no end. For our knowledge is only in part, and the prophet's word gives only a part of what is true: But when that which is complete is come, then that which is in part will be no longer necessary. When I was a child, I made use of a child's language, I had a child's feelings and a child's thoughts: now that I am a man, I have put away the things of a child. For now we see things in a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now my knowledge is in part; then it will be complete, even as God's knowledge of me. But now we still have faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love.” I Co 13:8-13 BBE[/i]

Most take this to mean that tongues have ceased since there is no use for them. But yet it also says that [b]“But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” 1Co 13:10[/b] I take that scripture to mean when Jesus returns then these gifts will cease. There are other gifts that will cease according to this scripture, but yet are still acknowledged in the church today. So if you want to argue that tongues are no more then why not say that word of knowledge and prophecy is gone?

[i]“Follow after charity, [b]and desire spiritual gifts,[/b] but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.” I Co 14:1-4 KJVA [/i]

[i]“Go after love;[b]still desiring to have the things which the Spirit gives,[/b] but most of all that you may have the prophet's power. For he who makes use of tongues is not talking to men but to God; because no one has the sense of what he is saying; but in the Spirit he is talking of secret things. But the word of the prophet gives men knowledge and comfort and strength. He who makes use of tongues may do good to himself; but he who gives the prophet's word does good to the church. “ I Co 14:1-4 BBE[/i]

I am not saying that speaking of tongues should be done with disorder, tongues is to edify yourself not a public display (unless proper interpretation). Paul talks about this in most of the later I Corinthians.

[i]I Co 14:27-28 “If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” [/i]

So why is it that even with the scriptures saying it exists people still deny it? I am looking for opinions, even if you are against speaking in tongues. Please share.


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Chrissy

 2005/8/17 15:15Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Least Of All Gifts

People have bought into notions that the Scriptures themselves never teach to say that tongues have ceased. Namely, they say gifts like tongues and prophecy were for the purpose of ultimately establishing the Scriptures, and then when the Scriptures came, they were no longer needed. However, you will never find anywhere taught in Scripture that the gifts of the Spirit such as tongues and prophecy were for the purpose of establishing Scripture.

In reality, the Scriptures teach that the purpose of the gifts is for edification and building up the saints, equipping them for the work of ministry. In reality, the Scriptures were simply born out of such edification. The prime product of the gifts was edification and helping people look more like Jesus- the biproduct of such was the Scriptures. So long as men need to be edified as Christians, and grow in Christ, the gifts of the Spirit will be needed in full in order to accomplish this end. When edification is no longer needed, then the gifts will cease.

Such is what the Bible teaches. Cessationist are unable to prove contrary, and assert things the Scriptures never themselves teach in this regard.


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Jimmy H

 2005/8/17 16:17Profile









 Re:


I think there are not a few here, who exercise tongues. It will be interesting to hear from any who don't.

You might like to check out a recent thread in the Scripture and Doctrine forum. There may be others older, if you search from the Home page.

'tongues' [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6156&forum=36&67]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6156&forum=36&67[/url]

 2005/8/17 18:44
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: Least Of All Gifts

Ravenhill said it best. Chuck Missler echoed basically the same thing. Both answered both sides by saying they are both wrong. One side says that you must speak in tongues to show you have been baptized by the Holy Ghost, and the other says that tongues ceased with the completion of the canon. Neither is correct.

I think that one can speak in tongues and not even be saved. I think that tongues have been given an un-Biblical stature. Notice one of Satan's attacks is not only to deny godly doctrine, but to turn Biblical doctrine upside-down. Look at the list from 1 Cor 12 and see what is listed last: tongues. Some say you start at the bottom and work your way up, but the Scripture doesn't say that. The Word says that the Spirit gives certain gifts to 'another.'

Both sides basically talk past each other. Personal devotion to the Lord and soulwinning often get left out when the focus stays on the spiritual gifts and the debates thereof. If we haven't wept in prayer, had the words of Scripture almost jump out at us, and haven't told a lost soul about how they stand before God, we really shouldn't be arguing about gifts, but repenting. Then, I believe, there wouldn't be arguments, but godly discussions.


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Hal Bachman

 2005/8/18 5:57Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Least Of All Gifts

Quote:
Why is it that the least of all gifts is the one that makes the most controversy?


I have come back to this thread one or two times and wondered if anyone would take you up on your description. Why do you say that 'the gift of tongues' is the 'least of all gifts'?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/8/18 13:09Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I have come back to this thread one or two times and wondered if anyone would take you up on your description. Why do you say that 'the gift of tongues' is the 'least of all gifts'?



I wonder this also. Its place in the 'list' does not denote importance. The last shall be first and the first shall be last indicates that chronology or order has little to do with how something or someone is to be regarded. If I say; Father, Son and Holy Spirit am I suggesting that the Holy Spirit is not coequal and coeternal, etc.?

Paul spoke in tongues 'more than ye all...' yet he understood how tongues were to operate. Classical Pentecostals view 'tongues' as initial evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Others who exercise spiritual gifts do not hold this view- but believe all who are baptized in the Holy Spirit 'can' speak with tongues.

Either way I know of none of the neo-pentecostal or pentecostal groups that suggest that tongues is the 'least' of the gifts. I think a [u]timely gift[/u] is the most important gift. The gift you need at the moment is the most important. Tongues for a pentecostal is one of the most frequently used gifts I suppose. It is also my view that all who are baptized in the Holy Spirit have access to ALL of the spiritual gifts. this equips every believer for the circumstances at hand when they are FULL of the Holy Ghost.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/18 14:21Profile





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