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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat Forever.

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filhodedeus
Member



Joined: 2005/8/5
Posts: 7
Brasil

 Re:

Hey Annie,

Love the post. With the complete illiteration of the Greek influence in all this, it seems to have become quite a doctrinal rabbit trail from the original post.

In reference to the original, kudos. If everyone would simply focus on the need for all of us to seek a deeper understanding, regardless of formal education, it would be an amazing feat!!

If every Christian alive at this moment would increase their knowledge of the Word and apply it daily by just 1 %...imagine the impact and change it would make in the Body of Christ!!

I challenge everyone who is reading this to take the orginal post to heart and let it alter how you approach the Word of God in a positive way.

Bless everyone in the name of our loving Lord Jesus


_________________
Eddi

 2005/8/17 10:10Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Did you want me to go into a full explanation of the declension of Articles in the Greek, and SHOW OFF ?


Do you think that is what I am doing?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/17 13:31Profile









 Re: The Fish cliché, not the Horse & water one.

8-)
For Everybody and anybody. (as mentioned in first post)

There was a time that you had to take endless classes to learn Greek or Hebrew,etc., with their Grammar rules, etc. or find longer/better definitions of words than just what Strong's Concordance, etc. gave. (Or fudge it, by using other's websites for your stuff;)


Now, thanks to a man, who has come along/aft James Strong and has put himself in an equal Hall-of-Fame .... [b]this guy has Numbered each word to the Strong's PLUS-PLUS ... has put an abbreviation over top of each word to tell you what the Grammar is ..... then ya just flip to the back of his Books, to find out what that grammar abbreviation stands for and explains 'how' it is used.[/b]

And his Dictionaries, with some words, can take PAGES to define just that one word.

**Not hard to understand either.**

He had All of us in mind, when he did these. No one else has ever did anything like this before ...
FOR ALL THE PEOPLE.

Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew are no longer just for the so-termed Scholars, thanks to Zodhiates & team. And again, he/they deserve the same credit for all his/their work, as James Strong has gotten for Numbering each word.
And maybe just a tad more. Amen !!


Set of all 4 Volumes
Retail Price: $ 152.96
CBD Price: $99.96


Or if that's too much $ right now, you can buy them 'individually' on these two pages or go a little higher and get the 5 Volume set .

The Complete Word Study Books, plus.

You may even find them cheaper elsewhere's, like the Used Books sites. (?)

The Word Study Volumes also come on a Bible Program CD. AMG's Bible Essentials for $ 64.95

OR, if you want to just get The Complete Word Study Dictionary alone, on your computer ... http://www.e-sword.net/wordstudy.html is offering it for $40.00, to go into your e-sword program. But at the bottom is a 'down-pointing arrow' and I pushed it, and now somethings (?) downloading. ??? I'll have to let ya know.

My husband has his degree in Greek, and in his classes, they were not permitted to use so much as an Interlinear (English with Greek parallel) ... but had to use the straight Greek N.T. alone, without any English with it at all.
They had to do all the grammar themselves and be graded on that. Besides to do the Exegetical full results of the verses they were Transliterating. :-?

If you've got time for all'a that, ( years), More power to ya :-) .... But we're just SO grateful, that Zodhiates has done this [u]for all of us[/u], and has given us all the ability to do the studies that only a few were able to do; just prior to his first release of these books. We're no longer in the 'dark ages', when some authority had to lead us into all the deeper truths of God's Words.

[u]Praise God[/u], while all'a this stuff is still available to us.


The first post on this thread, attempted to explain the rest. Lord Bless, if you can see the point.


[b]GOD BLESS YOU BEREANS !
Psalms 119[/b]

 2005/8/19 1:06









 Re:

Quote:
OR, if you want to just get The Complete Word Study Dictionary alone, on your computer ... http://www.e-sword.net/wordstudy.html is offering it for $40.00, to go into your e-sword program. But at the bottom is a 'down-pointing arrow' and I pushed it, and now somethings (?) downloading. ??? I'll have to let ya know.




(It helps to read the fine print - hey ?)

It's $40.00 and still worth it.


 2005/8/19 3:13
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Annie
This is good advice. It is always as well, where possible, to be aware of the theological bias of our experts. Spiros Z is from a strongly Reformed background and it is worth bearing that in mind. The e-sword module of OT and NT is very good value.

It is now possible to get a whole library of Strongs Number related Bible tools.
[u]Gesenius[/u] for a comprehensive OT lexicon is number coded by Baker Bible House.
[u]Thayer Grimm[/u] does the same for the NT, although it is worth bearing in mind that Thayer was a unitarian and this will be reflected in his 'definitions'
[u]Wigrams[/u] OT and NT was also done by Baker Bible House but this kind of 'Hebrew/Greek concordance is almost redundant for someone using any Bible software.
[u]Vine's Expositary Dictionary[/u] is also now available number coded to Strongs. This is one of my personal favourites. An earlier version is available Vine Online but it is not number coded. Vine was from a Christian Brethren background, so it is as well to bear that in mind too.
Another new arrival on the block is Renn's Expository Dictionary of Bible Words. At $16.47 hardback from Amazon this is extraordinary value AND it comes with the whole book on a disk as a pdf file. The pdf file is very useful. I have been using one for a few weeks and am very impressed. Renn is not as 'exhaustive' as Vine but has more OT words that the Vine equivalent. It is well produced and should give a lifetime's value as a reference book.

I think, where possible, it is always good to have more than one 'expert' to consult.

“Where there is no counsel, the people fall;
But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.” (Prov. 11:14, NKJV)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/19 3:34Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Are you suggesting that Spiros categorically states that Matthew was written in Hebrew? The consensus of scholarship is that the Greek of Matthew's gospel is so good and fluid that it could not be a translation from Hebrew. One of the modern suggestions is that there were separate versions of Matthew's gospel; one in Hebrew, and one in Greek but the Greek being an original and not a translation from Hebrew. As we have the facts at present no-one knows; not Spiros Zhodiates, not you, not me. It is the categoric statement that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew that I am challenging.

Annie
You didn't answer this so I checked up on Spiros Z's position myself in his NT Word Study Book he says, of Matthew..." From early times, Matthew's book has been placed at the beginning of the New Testament. The approximate date for its writing is AD 58-68. There is some evidence that it was originally written in Hebrew or that Matthew made one copy in Hebrew and one in Greek" which is why I was so surprised in your categoric statement that it was originally written in Hebrew. There are older, more liberal scholars, who would argue for Matthew's original being in Hebrew, but Spiros Zhodiates' view as expressed here would, I think, we the modern evangelical consensus.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/19 4:33Profile









 Re:

[u]Re: to post "by philologos on 2005/8/19 3:34:55"[/u]


The "numbered to the Strong's" wasn't my point, [u]but that Zodhiates had done the Grammar and explains the grammar for any and all readers on an understandable level.[/u]

[Only unlined to emphasize, not yelling here :-) ]

The down side of his books,(which are minor, if you overlook his "personal notes at the bottom of 'some' pages), was not worth the mention, because of the great value and asset of these books, in and of themselves are, and being the [u]only[/u] available books that [b]does the Grammar for us[/b], was my Point. (I'm still smiling, don't worry :)

Many of those we all now use, and some of your own list included, are Calvinistic, but nonetheless, we can still glean from them.

Just as some Authors on SI are also.

Vines is not very comprehensive.

As far as 'other books', I'm sure you'd appreciate my husband's library. :-D

But again, my point was, that the Zodhiates series is the [u]Only[/u] set that does the grammar for the people and opens that up to all in an understandable way.
_____________________________________________

[u]Re to post "by philologos on 2005/8/19 4:33"[/u]

Quote:
Annie
You didn't answer this so I checked up on Spiros Z's position myself in his NT Word Study Book he says, of Matthew...
" From early times, Matthew's book has been placed at the beginning of the New Testament. The approximate date for its writing is AD 58-68. There is some evidence that it was originally written in Hebrew or that Matthew made one copy in Hebrew and one in Greek"
which is why I was so surprised in your categoric statement that it was originally written in Hebrew. There are older, more liberal scholars, who would argue for Matthew's original being in Hebrew, but Spiros Zhodiates' view as expressed here would, I think, we the modern evangelical consensus.



Philo, I 'did' answer this on page one and if you look again at what you are saying here in this quote, it is not making sense.

If he "first wrote it in Hebrew and [u]then[/u] in Greek....."
Then he [u]still[/u] originally wrote it in Hebrew.

:-(

Well, I came on to post another addition to this thread. Hang tight and have a peacefilled day.

Annie

 2005/8/19 5:32









 Re:The Fish cliché, not the Horse & water one.

[b]Seven words for "Knowledge" ... what type shall we choose ?[/b]

G1921
επιγινώσκω
epiginōskō
ep-ig-in-oce'-ko
From G1909 and G1097; to know upon some mark, that is, recognise; by implication to become fully acquainted with, to acknowledge: - (ac-, have, take) know (-ledge, well), perceive.
_______________________________________________
G1922
επίγνωσις
epignōsis
ip-ig'-no-sis
From G1921; recognition, that is, (by implication) full discernment, acknowledgement: - (ac-) knowledge (-ing, -ment).
_______________________________________________
G1990
επιστήμων
epistēmōn
ep-ee-stay'-mone
From G1987; intelligent: - endued with knowledge.
________________________________________________
G1108
γνωσις
gnōsis
gno'-sis
From G1097; knowing (the act), that is, (by implication) knowledge: - knowledge, science.
________________________________________________
G1097
γινώσκω
ginōskō
ghin-oce'-ko
A prolonged form of a primary verb; to “know” (absolutely), in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as shown at left, with others not thus clearly expressed): - allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) known (-ledge), perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.
________________________________________________
G1492
είδω
eidō
i'-do
A primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent, G3700 and G3708; properly to see (literally or figuratively); by implication (in the perfect only) to know: - be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot. Compare G3700.
_________________________________________________
G4907
σύνεσις
sunesis
soon'-es-is
From G4920; a mental putting together, that is, intelligence or (concretely) the intellect: - knowledge, understanding.
______________________________________________
[b]The effects of the wrong types or uses of...[/b]

1Ti 6:20 O Timotheus, the thing entrusted guard thou, avoiding the profane vain-words and opposition of the falsely-named knowledge

2Co 12:20 For I fear, lest when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults

Rom 1:29 .............. maliciousness; full of envy,.. debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

Phi 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Phi 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Phi 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel.

Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

1Co 8:1 .... Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Jam 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.


May the Wisdom, gleaned daily from the Spirit of Truth and through studying His Word, Increase our Peace in Him and with others... In Christ.

A chapter of Proverbs a day, keeps a lack of discernment at bay.

God Bless !

 2005/8/19 5:49
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
If he "first wrote it in Hebrew and then in Greek....."
Then he still originally wrote it in Hebrew.


How do you know?


Quote:
Vines is not very comprehensive.


OK, you win, I am speechless! :-?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/19 7:24Profile









 Re:The Fish cliché, not the Horse & water one.

Quote:
Quote Philo:
OK, you win, I am speechless! :-?



Highly unlikely on the latter half.



As I had learned, the hard way, on the thread Getting along with our Gifts that 'partial quotes' are a specialty of some, in the assumption that 'the most', only read the last post first, and do not go back to the post from where these "fragments" had been taken.....

Because of that frequent practice, I will 'requote' the posts quoted, WHENEVER this 'fragmenting' takes place, from now on ~ for 'fairness & honesty's' sake ... keeping in mind the setting we are in.

Full post quoted from...
Quote:

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------

Annie
You didn't answer this so I checked up on Spiros Z's position myself in his NT Word Study Book he says, of Matthew...
" From early times, Matthew's book has been placed at the beginning of the New Testament. The approximate date for its writing is AD 58-68. There is some evidence that it was originally written in Hebrew or that Matthew made one copy in Hebrew and one in Greek"
which is why I was so surprised in your categoric statement that it was originally written in Hebrew. There are older, more liberal scholars, who would argue for Matthew's original being in Hebrew, but Spiros Zhodiates' view as expressed here would, I think, we the modern evangelical consensus.
-------------------------------------------------



Philo, I 'did' answer this on page one and if you look again at what you are saying here in this quote, it is not making sense.

If he "first wrote it in Hebrew and then in Greek....."
Then he still originally wrote it in Hebrew.

[End of post partially quoted].




From the top
Quote:
"You didn't answer this so I checked up on Spiros Z's position myself"




My Answer again ~ that is what I had requested you do on page 1, as mentioned above by my saying, "I 'did' answer this on page one ....."


Next part
Quote:
Philo says:
There is some evidence that [u]it was originally written in Hebrew or that Matthew made one copy in Hebrew and one in Greek[/u]"
which is why I was so surprised in your categoric statement that [u]it was originally written in Hebrew. There are older, more liberal scholars, who would argue for Matthew's original being in Hebrew, [b]but Spiros Zhodiates' view as expressed here would, I think, we the modern evangelical consensus.[/b][/u]



Which again brings me back to my reaction ....
Quote:
If he "first wrote it in Hebrew and then in Greek....."
Then he still 'originally' wrote it in Hebrew. :-(



A MAJOR part of page 1 here, is being overlooked in all of this and my having to post my reply to Saved-Matt TWICE, to stress the part, that we (of all people), should not be stressing [u]"who wrote what, in which language"[/u], because even among the Scholars, (as can be seen by typing "Original languages of Scriptures" into Google) ... we see how this is much debated and again as in the thread link given above is yet another "rabbit trail" (as other's had noted on both threads now) to only take from the heart and subject of both threads. Yet despite all of that posting on page one on this thread, you still carry the "What language was Matthew written in ?" on to page 2 now.

Amazing. But I've seen posts like this before, and they are just meant to distract from the Topic.

What I did wish you had noticed was the post just before your last one here above.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


To restate the intent of both threads, (this one & the gifts thread) is that ......

1 ~ The "power" must be given back to the INDIVIDUAL CHRISTIAN, so that they are made VERY MUCH AWARE of what the Lord of Hosts has EQUIPPED them with INDIVIDUALLY. BECAUSE in these last days, EACH will have to stand on their own, and make it through 'unto the end' [u]on their own[/u] ..... and one day, face God on their own and none of us will be able to use the excuse that "Well Lord, so & so 'taught me that' ". We are each individually responsible before God, for searching Him out and finding Him (who IS TRUTH), Individually. "Try all things ~ Test all things".

2 ~ When that is apprehended by The Saints, then, they are no longer dependent on "Others to teach them", or be made to feel as though their "gifts" are any less or any less needed by the Body, nor that they are in any way Inferior to others, especially the young in Christ. "The eye cannot say to the ear, I don't need you, etc." type analogy that was given on the Gifts thread was also to PROMOTE UNITY AMONG US AND RESPECT FOR EVEN THE YOUNGEST AMONG US.

3 ~ It is doing a great disservice to the Body of Christ, and to the CAUSE OF CHRIST, when 'we' choose to cause others TO DEPEND ON US, to "lead them into all Truth", when that is the Ministry of the Holy Spirit within them - John 16:13.
We are to point each other to CHRIST and not to ourselves as the "well-springs of all knowledge".

4 ~ The main purpose here, in this thread, was to encourage each to Study on their own, so as to not be deceived by false teachers/teachings, that Jesus warned through-out the N.T. will come. And are come !

5 ~ Purpose for this thread, is to exhort toward a "Hunger for the Word", because "IT" is our ONLY defense against, Sin, the Flesh, the World and the Devil.

6 ~ And lastly to show each individual, that GREEK IS NO LONGER JUST FOR SOME FEW, as in some 'elite few'.



Fragmentally quote posts and rabbit trail all you want, yet God has a way to make "All things work together for Good...."


I would pray that we would be more 'Christocentric' and 'Others'-centric, so that the edification and building up of HIS Body were the central theme in all of our posts and not these type encounters between us.


We all are to Point each other to CHRIST. AMEN !


I pray that in all things ~ HIS Glory and the building UP of the Body would be foremost in our minds and motives here-after.

This I can only pray in, Jesus', the Only True Logos, Name.


Annie







 2005/8/19 13:32





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