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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat Forever.

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 Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat Forever.

[u][b]Hunger for The Word.[/u][/b]

[u]An Exercise in Truth.[/u]

Place your right thumb on Matthew chpt. 1, leaving it there - then turn to Revelation chpt. 22 and place your right Index finger there.

Now close the Bible with those two fingers inside.

See the size of the N.T. ?

Compare that to the size of other books you've read.

So why is it, that most Christians don't even know, just their N.T. ?

Nor, can hardly use a Concordance; because they can't even remember one word out of a verse ... if they even know what a Concordance is.

It would be monumental if every Believer at least knew the N.T..

Absolutely monumental !

Not verbatim necessarily, but enough to be able to use a Concordance to find Scripture verses they remember reading.

But we all have an excuse.

One reason we don't, is because of Chapters and Verses; which is very helpful for quick reference, but was never intended to "divide" the Word of God.

The books of the N.T. were written as One Letter each and without even punctuation marks; but because someone broke it up into verses and punctuated it and split it into Chpt.s ; we feel we can 'pull out' a verse here and there, ‘out of the context of the whole chpt.’ - quote 'it' and feel we've done something. Most preachers do it too. Please check the context of the verse they give and see if that is what the Chapter, as a whole, is saying. It's an epidemic type practice in these days. Not a day goes by that we don't hear this practice used on Christian radio or elsewhere. The ‘verse’ the speaker uses, has nothing to do with the Chpt. it came from, nor his topic. Splitting verses is the leading cause of heresies.

Another reason is, all the different translations out there, makes Concordance use, word studies and memorization, etc., impossible. (Everyone quoting a different one.)

Best to pick a translation that has the most study tools, etc. to go along with it. This way, when a verse comes to mind, it can be easily looked up in the Concordance, by just remembering one word from the verse and then found in the Bible. Then word definitions can be looked up in the Strong's Concordance/Dictionary or other Hebrew/Greek dictionaries, etc., etc..

The N.T. was written in the ancient Greek language (a bit in Aramaic). Most Christians now a days could care a hoot 'Why' God chose 'that' language to write the most important book in this world's History. :(Some distain hearing it at all :)

It wasn't by circumstance that God chose it. That language was the most exact language that has ever existed. It had 24 "the"s ~ just for one word.

Talk about 'precise'. Imagine being that exact to have 24 'the'(s).

It would appear, that God did not want any question as to what He was saying.

Any debate for truth, could be won, just by the Greek's grammar alone.

The grammar was so exact, that you could tell by the spelling of each word, whether it was past action, present action, continuous action, or present yet continuous or starting in the past and still continuing, or male, female or neuter, etc. etc.. The most incredibly accurate language that's ever existed ... and that's why God chose His Word to be written at that time, (Gal 4:4, “when the 'fullness' of time had come...’’, included) when it was the language of the Jews ... (with the exception of Matthew, which was written in Hebrew, then translated back to the Greek. ). The Jews also translated their Hebrew O.T. into the Greek, called the Septuagint.

Now a-days, it is so easy to find books or websites or free program downloads, that will define the Greek words, etc. for us, "http://www.e-sword.net" and books and Bible programs, that even do the grammar of each word used, for us, "http://www.christianbook.com" > ([u]The Complete Word Study Bible and Dictionary Pack, 5 Volumes by: edited: Spiros Zodhiates[/u]), but those practices, which used to be common practice 100 yr.s ago or so, have become so rare, (and actually frowned upon on by [u]some[/u]) and oddly enough, at a time when word study tools, are more available to us than ever before in the history of the Church. (And this; the most ‘Debating’ generation yet, on their ‘Forums’, et al.) Does this seem to be the "Laodicean" church of Rev. 3 ?

In this country, even if a person cannot read or see, the Bible is on tape or CD, and with the indwelling Holy Spirit's aide, they have all they'll ever need of The Truth... taking that; not all people, everywhere, can get to the resources that we can.

[i]In these last days, we'll only get out of our spirit's, what we have invested into them, while we had the time.[/i]

Another reason could be laziness and/or "other things to do". We've exalted Pastors, Teachers, Authors, etc., to the place of a Pope or Cardinal, in that, all knowledge is dribbled down through them and not from our own studies anymore.

The Word commands that [u]we study[/u], (more intensive than just reading), but now we leave it up to our gurus to "lead us into all truth".

A man may be a very good teacher, but if we don't study for ourselves, then [u]we've[/u] made that person a guru. The 'sermons', Etc., have become more important to us than what God Himself had to say. We'll sit and listen to them for 45 min.s or so, but not give that much time on Monday-Friday to study for ourselves. In most sermons/teachings now a days, we get maybe 3 verses and a bunch of the entertaining (or sometimes good) words of a man and think we've gotten 'The Word' ... but only the Bible is the very words of God/Inspired. No Pastor, etc. can write the Bible or add one verse to it, to be printed within it.

No person is 100% Inerrant ~ 100% of the time -- but the Word Is.

And, His Spirit of Truth.

Why would we settle for a man's opinion, rather than The [u]Author's[/u] True meaning and intent. John 6:68 And Jesus prayed in John 17:17.

But we'd rather be "fed", than labor in the Word for ourselves.

A funny but sad account of one good Pastor was that, he wanted to test how 'Bible literate' his new congregation was, so he got up and said, "Please turn to Hezekiah 4:14." Much to his dismay, he could hear pages rattling throughout the building.

In this day and age ... almost every Bible study tool on earth, can be found at our finger tips - on our keyboards or an Academic bookclub or even in Libraries.

Just type "Christian Apologetics" into Google and see what you'll find.

Never before in History has Bible Study and Research been made so easy, (at least for now, in the free world), yet never before in History have Christians been more lazy. (Again, ‘in the free world.’ ... In some countries, they walk for miles just to get a segment of a Bible. Others risk their very lives to smuggle Bibles for others.)

Those Huge Multi-Volume Classic Commentaries we use for Bible Studies were [u]hand[/u]-written ... as was our Bible ~ Countless times, since it was first written (and some of it hand-written from/in prisons). What’s our excuse ?

We can just "copy and paste" Bible verses now and write up a few pages of study with a computer, in less than an hour. All libraries here have computers now also.

[u][b]Our Love Affair with Jesus. [/b][/u]

If someone we really loved was far away and wrote us a letter ... we'd probably read it over and over. We'd want to know every detail of all that is in their mind and how they feel, etc.. Matt.6:21 (His Word IS our Love Letter.)

If our friend asked us, what was in the letter, we'd be excited to tell them all that our loved one had written. But in these days, if we read at all, we'd rather hear or read what someone else 'thinks' the Letter is saying (and only a sentence extracted from it here and there), rather than dig through the whole of it ourselves.

I've seen baby birds, that were bigger than their mothers, chasing their mother around with their mouths open, waiting to be fed by her, when they were old enough to fed themselves (and did on occasions when she refused). That is modern Christianity. "Feed us", but not for more than an hour (or 1/2 hr.)."

The Apostle Paul spoke all night and the people drank it in... and No wonder; because he was speaking the Very Word of God that we have written in our Bibles ... not his 'opinion' of what the Bible says... which is all we can get from Pastors, etc. (people as a whole... as said, are not 100% accurate, 100% the time). [u]1Th 5:21[/u] They can be 99 % correct in their sermons, teaching, or beliefs ... but that 1% Untruth, could be heresy... but the people would rather risk hearing error, then to feed themselves. Had the people known their Bible, they would catch that 1% arsenic and spit it out ... but they drink in the whole thing, as in the Dark Ages, when only the priests could read and deliver the so-called truth of God. [u]Jer. 5:31[/u]

In the Greek, the word used for "heresy or heresies" was the word for "[u]choice - to choose for oneself - the opinion ‘chosen.[/u]’ ". (Strong's # 139 is from # 138)

In other words, whatever we hear or read - We [u]choose[/u] whether to believe it or not.

"People believe what they 'want' to believe." Heresy is "our Choice", God says.

Personal responsibility again... To choose. To quench the Spirit of [u]truth[/u] or to not.

Pastors and Teachers are only two gifts in the Church, they were never meant to have an elevated position, any more than any of the other gifts. Nor take the place of our own "searching out".

We [i]are[/i] headed to the Dark ages again, Prophetically speaking, (by choice, [u]so far[/u]), the Bible calls it 'the last days'... where "most shall fall away from the truth" and when there would be a famine of The Word of God - His Truth.

Three Scripture verses per sermon, is like living on bread and water alone.

How could we think 'our' or some other man's words, matter more than God's ?

We have Pastors and Teachers galore, but where are the Prophets ? From those whom I've known of, they're castigated out of the 'feel good' Churches. No different than the O.T. days, where most were treated that way. [u]2Tim 4:1-4[/u]

That is why the Lord admonished us through Paul, "Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings."

Fellowship is what The Lord commanded of us, and Pastors and Teachers and Prophets and Evangelists and Apostles, etc., have their place, but not to take the place of our own active participation of 'rightly dividing the Word of Truth', with the Lord's Spirit's help and having the freedom to be used in our own gift(s) during fellowship, for the Lord has given gifts to all his believers. Those are Biblical Fellowships. "Can the eye say to the hand, I don't need you ?" 1 Corth. 12

Our desire should be, to give people a hunger and thirst, to go to God's Word for themselves and show them where or how to go, for any resources, if needed, to assist in their own Bible exposition. (The same principle as "give a man a fish and he'll eat for one day... but teach him [u]how[/u] to fish, and he'll eat forever") So many want to "Teach", but only to be looked up to. Would we not do better to teach them 'where' to look. Are we doing men a favor, to always be there with an answer, or would we not do better, to direct them TO "The Answer" ... Him & His Word.

[u]We are to be the "salt", that makes men thirsty for The Word of God ... not to attract people unto ourselves, to sit at our feet for all wisdom or knowledge. Nor to put books 'about' The Word, above reading/studying The Word itself.[/u]

Only the actual Word of God is "Living and sharper than a two-edged sword."

It's the Holy Spirit's job, to lead us into [u]all[/u] truth, not humans.

Devotional books are great, but not as the sole diet for the day.

Commentaries have their place, but all things should be tested against our own studies and prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God to instruct and discern for us.

A quote from the side notes of the Geneva Bible: Eccles. 12:12 ........... of making many books (z)[there is] no end; and much study (of them) a weariness of the flesh. Notes on (z) "These things cannot be comprehended in books or learned by study, [u]but God must instruct your heart [/u]that you may only know that [u]wisdom is the true happiness [/u] and the way to it is to fear God."

Wisdom is knowing,[u] by the Lord,[/u] how to use Knowledge.

( ie. "The [u]Spirit[/u] of the law" vs. "The letter of the law".) One can teach "truth", but without the Spirit, it is dead & vice versa.

[u]John 16:13[/u] [i]Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into [u]All[/u] Truth: for He shall not speak of Himself (as humans do); but whatsoever He shall hear,{nothing that contradicts THE TRUTH}, that shall He speak: [u]and He will show you things to come. [/i][/u]

Imagine that ! HE will also "show us things to come."

[u] "MY sheep HEAR My Voice". John 10[/u]

Paul says it best, about following men in 1 Corth. chpt. 3. So many want to teach, but only to be looked up to. Would we not do better to teach them 'where' to look.

[b]The Lord 'can' and does use people to teach us ... but if we do not Know the Word of God for ourselves, willfully, then we will eventually be deceived by false teachings and teachers - period. That's Bible ![/b]

Those Berean Jews, who even doubled-checked Paul's teachings, were 'commended' as being "more noble" ... Act 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, [u][i]and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." [/i][/u]

The O.T. has a word for "pause and reflect". That word is "Selah" (found in Ps. 3 and 75 times total in the O.T.). It was the common practice to read God's Word in that way.

Slowly reading, as a 2nd grader would, and reflecting on each word and pondering 'why' God used each word and what it could mean and what was the message of each verse in context of it's Chpt. and it's book ... because they knew ... God doesn't mince words, waste them and each one has a significant purpose for being there. The word Selah is similar to our word "ruminate", as how cows eat. They chew and chew ... swallow, then bring it up again and continue to chew (cud).

Since the Christ died and sent the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we don't 'ruminate' alone anymore. John 14:16 & 17

The God of Heaven is omniscient ... meaning "all knowing" , or having an IQ beyond human conception (immeasurable actually) ... and He wanted us to know as much as 'humanly' possible about Himself and His ways and desires. Yet, He knew that we would need One Book and one that was not too big to carry around. So He had to condense all of what He wanted us to know and that we Need to know, into our Bible. So needless to say, because of how reasonably sized it is (compared to His Knowledge) ... He could not afford to waste one word or not have a purpose for each and every word He chose to use. Matt 5:18

In John chpt. 1 and Rev. 19 - [u]Jesus[/u] is called, "The Word of God".

To Not know the Word of God, is to not fully know Jesus.

To Love the Word made flesh - is to Love 'His Word'. The two cannot be separated.

We cannot "Love Jesus" or hunger for more of Him and not Love and hunger for more of His Word. They're inseparable.

It is the only book on earth that has been written by the very hand of God Himself, yet we have more important things to do, rather than study ... and despite the fact that, how we spend Eternity lies in "what we have done with His Word."

What could be "more important"; seeing that "life is but a vapor", but Eternity is Forever.

Some say that, when the FBI is trained to learn 'counterfeit' money, they are given a real bill to examine over and over and over, so that they could peg a counterfeit by knowing the real.

That is how God has provided instruction to us, on how to know a 'false teaching or teacher', by giving us the [u]real[/u] thing, to examine over and over until we know it. Then the false will give us a check in our spirits, (where the Word has been stored), that something in the teaching or manifestation or presentation is amiss.

In the last days, Jesus said, false teachings-teachers and prophets will be rampant. (Besides multitudes of "signs & wonders" that will deceive.) And admonished us to "not be deceived." So we have a mandate to read and ruminate over the Word, asking God to give us understanding by His "Spirit of Truth", being humbly and totally dependent on Him, to translate it for us and putting forth the effort to Study - not just race through it.

He commanded that we must 'worship' Him "in Spirit and in Truth".

Not just Spirit - Not just Truth, but both equally combined.

Being fully penetcostal, I've seen all 'spirit' (so-called) and little truth, happen in some Churches or gatherings.

All 'spirit', without Truth, is not "Truth" in action, so it is not THE Holy Spirit, (Who [u]IS[/u] The Spirit OF Truth), so it is either fleshly worship or 'another spirit'.

(The gift of "discerning of spirits" is for this purpose, to identify what is operating)

The Spirit of God will not contradict His Word. A lot of excitement is not a sign of a move of God. Most of these last days Churches are nothing but "entertainment", the giving of goose bumps or an excuse to boogy. No matter how many times I read the Book of Acts, I cannot find one similarity in the First Church and our 'churches' of today.

'We' are the Church, not a building. There is virtually nothing left in our ‘churches’ of the book of Acts today: with rare exceptions.

The "Church" met in homes. They were close to each other. They all shared at fellowship times. None would amass wealth - they had "all things in common". Read through the book of Acts sometime and see if you can find any similarities with today's "Churches" or today's preachers. Can you see Paul in a $300 suit, driving a fancy rig and living in luxury on the backs of the people ? Are they "Suffering for Christ's sake" ?? Phil 1:29 Col 1:24 1Corth 4:10 2Corth 4:5 & 12:10

[u][b]W.W.J.D. ?[/b][/u]


Pastor means "shepherd" and they are supposed to be like our Chief Shepherd - Jesus.

If Jesus wouldn't do something ... they shouldn't.

Paul said, "follow me AS I follow Christ".

Do you know many Pastors that are like, or living like Jesus or Paul did ?

There are a few of those who do, but their congregations are usually small. Why ? Because we don't [i]want[/i] anything like the fellowships the first Church had, under the Apostles.

Not enough Fun, freedom, we may have to give up some more T.V., or see the Lord in action as He was back then.

We don't want the True gift of Prophecy operating in our Church ... it may rebuke our lives.

We don't want the discerning of spirits operating, it may embarrass someone.

We don't want to sit for hours listening to the Word.

Doesn't Fellowship mean, "Having Fun" ?

Imagine yourself in Lydia's house and Paul shows up. (getting squeamish ?)

I imagine we would feel a bit uncomfortable, because of how far we've come from what the true "fellowship of the Saints" was like .... absolutely Nothing like today's.

Christianity has been almost totally redefined and mostly within the last 60 yr.s or so.

Rock concert participants, get equally as excited as those "entertained" at church.

When the [u]real[/u] Truth is preached, in it's fullness, [u]then[/u] the true gifts of the Spirit will operate. Many cults 'speak in tongues', etc. and in the absence of [u]Truth[/u], it is "another spirit", as Paul called it and "another Jesus".

The Pentecostals have gotten away from the 'academics' of studying God's Word (being Bereans) and have over-emphasized 'the move of the spirit' (putting the Holy Spirit higher than The Lord and His Word Jn 15:26, Jn16:13 & 14) and those denominations that [i]are[/i] into academics, fear any outward signs, because they've seen such abuse of the phenomena. But God asks for both... Spirit [u]and[/u] Truth (His Word).

Today's pentacostals are mostly just 'touchy-feely' folks.

They want that "feeling" and not just Truth and when they hear full-Bible, they complain, "too hard" - "you're too judgmental" - "where's the love ?" - "you're too negative".

When God in 2Thess2 mentions "the [u]love[/u] of the truth" (and that those who did not have ‘it‘, would be “given over to the strong delusion and believe the lie“), He used the word that meant "unconditional Love" ... that means, loving the whole of God's Word ... the 'bless me' stuff and the so-called 'hard stuff' of it.

Jesus said He [u]IS The Truth[/u] and said, His Word is Truth, but 'Just Truth' has become quite bland to most.

They'd have walked out on long-winded Paul, after an hour or so. Not entertaining enough to hold us, like television can (for hours).

We cannot separate Jesus - ('The Word' made flesh) from The Word (the Bible).

[b]"We cannot fully know the Jesus of the Bible, until we know Jesus 'from' the Bible."[/b]

(Then 'who' are these willfully-Biblically-illiterate folks 'worshipping' ?)

One of the early events in the first Church, was the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira. (That would make some "worship service" now, wouldn't it ?)

But who killed them ? The same LORD that we sing about.

The same God who destroyed Sodom and punished the Israelites in the desert, Etc..

The Jesus we [u]shall[/u] see, as described in Rev. 19:11-21.

Does that make Him less "loving" ? (actually, He is not just 'loving' - He [u]IS[/u] LOVE. ( 1JN 4:8)

To "unconditionally love" God, we must "unconditionally love" His Word and what's in it, even these 'tough' things. Both Old and New Testaments have these 'tough things' in them.

It's not all fluff and warm fuzzies, and neither is God/Christ.

[u]He IS Perfect Love ... which is 100 % mercy and 100 % righteous judgment.[/u]

(hard for us humans to understand without His help)

The parable of the seed sown on the 'stony ground' basically says, the joy-bell-only-believers are going to bail out when the going gets rough. And, as said before, in the last days, "most" fall away.

At Passover, the Jews were commanded to eat the 'whole' lamb. We're to take in the whole of Christ and His Word.

The Mannah was given fresh daily and yesterday's would rot. We need to partake of Him daily. Yesterday's high won't get us through till tonight.

Rev. 20:12 says, "the books were opened", and because we know that His Word is [b]eternal[/b] ("Forever" Ps. 119:89); we know that one of those "Books" is the Word of God, our Bible, by which we shall be judged.

He will ask us, [i]"What did you do with My book, that I wrote you and My Holy Spirit that I sent you, to lead you into All Truth ?" [/i]John 16:13

And what did 'the Word made flesh' use against Satan's temptings ?

Only God's Word ..... Then so must we.

If we blame our error on someone else, like "my Pastor taught me", that won't fly.

Paul warned, watch your life AND DOCTRINE (Teachings you believe) closely. 1Tim 4:16.

The word Doctrine (= teachings) is mentioned 44 times in the N.T.. So the teachings that we believe are equally as important as how we live our Christian lives. They go hand in hand. "Walk by Faith..." but "Faith cometh by the Word..."

“Sin not...” but with “Thy Word have I hid in my heart, that I may not sin against Thee.” etc. etc.

[i]Everything we do, think, decide on, etc. etc., should be based upon His Word. [/i]

So then, ‘how’ can we walk according to His Word (and thus, “Please Him“, unless we know what The Word says) and “be renewed in the spirits of our minds“ without it ? To walk autonomously ?

He laid [u]equal[/u] importance on both; Life and Doctrine.

Not just living a life we believe is acceptable unto God, but also having our doctrine (beliefs) straight and right [u]from studying with prayer.[/u]

We are personally responsible for ourselves and not who we sit under or read from.

Be a Berean !

Remembering the size of the N.T. (About a half inch) ~ Christians have a responsibility; to He who died to provide it for us (from His heart to ours); to know within our souls, that we've done all we can do, to know His Word - in Spirit and in Truth; less we stand before Him without excuse. It’s our Love for Him in action.

When asked “why” do we believe this or that belief; we should have enough understanding from Scripture to show them why.

Scripture itself, is the most powerful counselor, convincer, convictor, sanctifier and proof of what is true, more than any book written by man himself... because It is the [u]Living[/u] (Eternally alive & active, from His Spirit to our spirits) Word of God.

Because His Words are Living, they are the weapon used, “the sword of the Spirit” in combating temptations, life’s queries, troubled times, etc..

What a love affair He offers through this. What unspeakable joy and full of Glory.

Eph 1:17 & 18 [i]That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints .......

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.[/i]

[u]Col 2:2 & 3 [/u]

Please give e-sword a try and see what God can do in and through you, just with that.

As we read through books, like 2Kings chpt.s 22 & 23 or Nehemiah 9:3, we see days when the Jews would listen to the reading of the Books of the law for up to 6 hours, and would have repentance and then rejoicings afterward, for getting to hear God’s Word’s again. These were the times that Revival would come to Israel.

This is how personal Revival will come for us and strength for the days coming ~ from devouring the Living Word.

His promise is 'Joy' in return for our seeking Him out, through His Book.

Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Psalm 119

If we love Him, we must seek Him with all our hearts, minds, souls and strength.

He is found through His Word, with prayer and is a rewarder of them, who diligently seek Him. Heb 11:6

[u]Philippians 3:7~14[/u]

 2005/8/16 10:01
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat Forever.

Quote:
That language was the most exact language that has ever existed. It had 24 "the"s ~ just for one word.

Talk about 'precise'. Imagine being that exact to have 24 'the'(s).


Annie
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Greek only has one word for 'the' just as we do. It is modified by different cases, number and genders but those are not different words.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/16 10:31Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re: Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat Forever.

Hi Grannie...!

Quote:
Place your right thumb on Matthew chpt. 1, leaving it there - then turn to Revelation chpt. 22 and place your right Index finger there.

Now close the Bible with those two fingers inside.

See the size of the N.T. ?

Compare that to the size of other books you've read.

So why is it, that most Christians don't even know, just their N.T. ?

Wow, Grannie! That is quite disturbingly true.

When I met the Lord as a teen, I immediately began to read the Word. In fact, I read the entire Bible in less than a week. I liked it so much -- I did it again. Reading it like a book, I began with the New Testament (from Matthew to Revelation) and then went into the Old Testament (from Genesis to Malachi). It was like water to the desert! Over the course of that summer, I must have read the Bible straight through several times.

Of course, I didn't quite comprehend [i]everything[/i] that I read. But I found that the more I read the Word, the more I understood the next time around.

I have met people in churches that read alot of books. Some read all sorts of genre -- from mysteries, biographies, christian romance novels, etc... I also enjoy reading. But I have often wondered why some of these friends who [i]boast[/i] about loving to read have have [u]never[/u] read the Bible from cover-to-cover. I even know a pastor who has been saved for over 50 years, but has [u]never[/u] read the Word of God from cover-to-cover.

There is power in the Word. It has more power than we sometimes give credit. Anyone that reads [i]No Compromise: The Life Story of Keith Green[/i] can see how even an unsaved person can draw closer to God by reading the written Word.

God help us to read the Word. God help us to inspire others (by our lives) to see what we read -- [i]alive and in living color[/i]!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2005/8/16 12:18Profile
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re: Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat Forever.

Wow Annie your posts ain't half getting long nowadays!

few things ive found:

Quote:
The N.T. was written in the ancient Greek language [b](a bit in Aramaic)[/b].



I know some of the OT was written in a Aramaic, (Genesis 31:47, Jeremiah 10:11, Ezra 4:8-6:18, 7:12-26 and Daniel 2:4-7:28.) but am unaware of any NT verses.

Quote:
Matthew ... was written in Hebrew, then translated back to the Greek.



I'll quote from a book i recently read called, Understanding the difficult words of Jesus by David Bivin and Roy Blizzard,
Quote:
We tend to forget that the OT comprises approximately 78% of the Biblical text, and the NT only 22%. When we add the portions of the NT that are believed to have been originally written in Hebrew (Matthew, Mark, Luke and Acts 1:15:35, which is approximately 43% of the NT) to the OT the percentage of Biblical material originally written in Hebrew rises to 88%. From the remaining 12% if we deduct the 176 quotations from the OT then that leaves the percentage of the Bible originally composed in Hebrew to over 90%!!



so not only matthew but over half of the NT was either originally in Hebrew or quoted directly from the Hebrew OT.

just a few things i thought would help

God bless Annie and thanx for the post

matt


_________________
matt

 2005/8/16 13:18Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
so not only matthew but over half of the NT was either originally in Hebrew or quoted directly from the Hebrew OT.


hi saved_matt
Most of the New Testament quotations from the the Old Testament are not from the Hebrew Old Testament but from the Greek translation called the Septuagint. It appears from Luke's gospel that this version was the version read by Jesus in Luke 4.

Quote:
Matthew ... was written in Hebrew, then translated back to the Greek.

This is certainly an old tradition but unproven.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/16 13:39Profile









 Re: Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat Forever.

*
*
[b][u]Hope no one minds me answering all three in one here. Thanks ![/u][/b]


Philo's post:

Quote:
Quote: That language was the most exact language that has ever existed. It had 24 "the"s ~ just for one word.

Talk about 'precise'. Imagine being that exact to have 24 'the'(s).

---------------------------------


Annie
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Greek only has one word for 'the' just as we do. It is modified by different cases, number and genders but those are not different words.



[b]Annie's answer - You answered your own question there.

How many which ways, can the word "the" be "modified", to coin your term ? Making then, how many different "the(s)" ?
[/b]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Philo's 2nd post:
Quote:
Quote:
so not only matthew but over half of the NT was either originally in Hebrew or quoted directly from the Hebrew OT.
-----------------------------------------

hi saved_matt
Most of the New Testament quotations from the the Old Testament are not from the Hebrew Old Testament but from the Greek translation called the Septuagint. It appears from Luke's gospel that this version was the version read by Jesus in Luke 4.


Quote: Matthew ... was written in Hebrew, then translated back to the Greek.
---------------------------------------


This is certainly an old tradition but unproven.




[b]Annie's answer ~ Spiros Zodhiates is still alive, I'll try to find his # and you can argue with him (and a few others) on this one.

Personally, I am just concerned with "the understanding of the Word of God" Itself .... written in a language that 'all' can understand.

Thanks for your contribution.

Hope we don't miss the "In [u]Spirit[/u] and truth " part.


Annie[/b]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[b]Hi Saved-Matt, Appreciate the spirit of your post, truthfully. Thank you !

Maybe you could start a thread on the languages that the Bible were written in.

Quote:

[u]THE LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE[/u]
The Old Testament portion of the Bible was written originally in the Hebrew language. This is the same language as is spoken by the Jews today in the country of Israel. A very small portion of the Old Testament was written in Aramaic, a language very similar to Hebrew. Hebrew and Aramaic were the languages commonly understood by the people living in Israel during the Old Testament period.

The New Testament was written originally in the Greek language. A very few words of Aramaic are also found in the New Testament. Greek and Aramaic were commonly understood by people living in the area of Israel during the time of Jesus. Greek was commonly understood throughout the Roman Empire that existed at Jesus' time. http://www.whataboutjesus.com/viewArticle.do?articleID=174&jsp=/bookByBookStudy/article.jsp



Then http://www.biblesociety.ca/about_bible/original_languages/ .......... Just for two.

Type "Original Bible Languages" into Google , and see how many different opinions are out there. The differences of 'opinions' out there are absolutely endless it seems.

That's not the direction where I had hoped this initial post would go. But only to show the [u]absolute necessity[/u] of us each to know His Word for [u]ourselves[/u], because only "It" can protect us.

I know you believe that way also, so this is by no means against your post.


The N.T. was written in "the language of the people" or "street language" (Koine) [u]so[/u] that "everyone" could understand it.

I guess that's how I write too. By choice, and for the same reason.


Love in Him.

Annie

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris,

Thank you for picking up on the spirit of it.

Without a hunger for His Word, we're sitting ducks.

That was the spirit of this. Not to 'impress', but to impress our "matter of life or death" need of His Word in us.
(wrote this two months ago, when seeing that in this Bible Belt, where I live, The Word isn't known by the 'most'. I got Sad !)

In Him.

Annie[/b]




 2005/8/16 17:46
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

GrannieAnnie

This is a great post!!! I urge every one to go back to the original post and read it.

I also have know numerous (if not most) western Christians who have never read the Bible. This is truly disturbing. Many of these have been Christians for 15-30 years and have never read the Bible even once from begin to end. If you truly love the word of God reading the Bible is something you do for fun. It is something you love. It is an activity you enjoy. If half the professing Christians read the Bible for the same amount of time they spent watching TV, playing golf or any of their other favorite activities we could turn this nation around and many of the seeker sensitive mega churches would go out of business. (that’s what they are any way -a business) and yes, reading the Bible is my favorite pass time. (since I was saved and Lord filled with a hunger for His Word)

I really think we should pray for God to give us a true hunger and thirst after His word. I remember (I think Bob Gladstone) a preacher say that sometimes we need to pray and seek after God just for Him to help us love Him enough and have the faith in Him that we should and to pray like He wants and to have a hunger and thirst after His Word like He wants us to have. I think if we pray with fervency and heart felt desire God will give us a true hunger and thirst for His Word.

Thanks again Grannie - this post is a blessing. Let’s not pick it apart word for word, but understand the meaning and purpose for which it was written.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/8/16 18:21Profile









 Re: Phillipians 3:7-14

*
ChristisKING,

I do believe you are right about us needing "to pray for that Hunger".

We not only deal with our flesh, but what I hadn't added up there was our Enemy. We don't just deal with flesh & blood.

There's no way on earth, that the demonic would want us getting into the only weapon that even Jesus used against him and that Satan knows is the LIVING Word, that transforms and changes us, more into His Image.

I believe, more effort comes out of fallen angels to STOP us, then we realise.

That's why the N.T. speaks so much about "the mind" and taking captive every thought, and the renewing of the mind ... so that we can discern our thoughts compared to God's, Satan's or our own flesh, so we know where we need to do battle.

"God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of Love and a "sound mind" " ... but actually that word 'sound mind', is self-discipline or self-control.

We must take control of ourselves and discipline ourselves in using time right, etc., as you've said. "Choose ye this day whom you will serve"

We don't just get a "sound mind" without having our mind "renewed or tranformed" by the washing of the Word.

We've got to realize, that satan will use every tool at his disposal, to distract us from Spiritual things, so we don't have "the strength in the time of battle." Whether that be times of temptations, or tribulation, or persecution, or needed emergency wisdom for our families, etc. etc..

That doesn't come by osmoses, only by "applying ourselves unto wisdom" and "Seeking" and "studying", etc. etc., with Prayer.

If we are seated in Heavenly places "with" Christ, then why do we do things that wouldn't go on in front of Christ and neglect the Important-Needful things ?
We only have one short life-time to get this right.


Anyhow, Manfred posted a great one by TAS.
Here's the thread link.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=51259&topic_id=6824&forum=31#51259

God BLESS ya !!!

 2005/8/17 3:11
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Annie's answer - You answered your own question there.

How many which ways, can the word "the" be "modified", to coin your term ? Making then, how many different "the(s)" ?


Answer: One. the fact that a noun has to follow case, number and gender does not make it a different word.

Quote:
Annie's answer ~ Spiros Zodhiates is still alive, I'll try to find his # and you can argue with him (and a few others) on this one.

I knew his brother, Argos. In fact, I pastored the church in the UK that Argos Zodhiates had previousy pastored. He was good and godly man. Are you suggesting that Spiros categorically states that Matthew was written in Hebrew? The consensus of scholarship is that the Greek of Matthew's gospel is so good and fluid that it could not be a translation from Hebrew. One of the modern suggestions is that there were separate versions of Matthew's gospel; one in Hebrew, and one in Greek but the Greek being an original and not a translation from Hebrew. As we have the facts at present no-one knows; not Spiros Zhodiates, not you, not me. It is the categoric statement that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew that I am challenging.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/17 4:50Profile









 Re:

[b]Good Morning Philo ~ How are you this bright and beautiful Wednesday :-) .
Isn't it great to be alive ?

Quote:
From Annie's First Post:

It wasn't by circumstance that God chose it. That language was the most exact language that has ever existed. It had 24 "the"s ~ just for one word.

Talk about 'precise'. Imagine being that exact to have 24 'the'(s).



Notice that I did not say, that there were "24 different words" for "THE" ... just 24 the(s).

Did you want me to go into a full explanation of the declension of Articles in the Greek, and SHOW OFF ? Or just try to keep it to the Whole Point of what I tried to express of how Masterfully created His Word is ?

The point being was, Does the English language have a "Declension of an article" as the Greek did ?

I don't know about you Philo, but this particular "exactness" of that language that HE chose, never ceases to amaze me .... but you know what my dead professor told us in our Very First Class ?
He said, "Do not flaunt your knowledge of the Greek, nor allow it to PUFF YOU UP, lest you lower God's Word to the level of those disputers in Athens."

Ya see, he was a "humble man", who would break down in tears, during the exegesis of the first 18 verses of John, because of the Beauty of God's Word and how 'the language' magnifies it's Truth all the more. Despite that he had already taught that class for probably 40 yr.s by then, he'd still weep.

Do you understand that type of heart ?

But, if it will edify "you" in any way, I'll not try to keep "the spirit" of this thread, as it was, and will take it the Philo way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THE Declension of the article 'THE' ~

[u]The Nominative case[/u] of Greek nouns is similar to the English nominative, it is the case of the subject of the sentence.

[u]The Genitive case[/u] roughly corresponds to our English possessive case.

[u]The Dative case[/u] is the case of the indirect object.

[u]The Accusative case[/u] is the case of the direct object.

[u]All 24 "cases" of the word "the", are only listed as #3588 in the Strong's numbering.[/u]


The Greek Article Declension chart I have, will not Post on here, so you'll have to go to this link and scroll down to the dead center of this page to see the chart ......

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/Atticdialect.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, has anyone been 'edified' by this exposition ?

With all eyes closed, raise your hand if you've been blessed.

Do I see a hand ?

(Hoy Vey)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, for the Second question I must answer this morning :lol: .


Do you have Spiros' Word Study New Testament ?

If so, look at his intro to Matthew.

And if not, please read what I posted to Saved-Matt..........

Quote:
Hi Saved-Matt, Appreciate the spirit of your post, truthfully. Thank you !

Maybe you could start a thread on the languages that the Bible were written in.

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------
THE LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE
The Old Testament portion of the Bible was written originally in the Hebrew language. This is the same language as is spoken by the Jews today in the country of Israel. A very small portion of the Old Testament was written in Aramaic, a language very similar to Hebrew. Hebrew and Aramaic were the languages commonly understood by the people living in Israel during the Old Testament period.

The New Testament was written originally in the Greek language. A very few words of Aramaic are also found in the New Testament. Greek and Aramaic were commonly understood by people living in the area of Israel during the time of Jesus. Greek was commonly understood throughout the Roman Empire that existed at Jesus' time. http://www.whataboutjesus.com/viewArticle.do?articleID=174&jsp=/bookByBookStudy/article.jsp
-------------------------------------------------
Then http://www.biblesociety.ca/about_bible/original_languages/ .......... Just for two.

[u]****Type "Original Bible Languages" into Google , and see how many different opinions are out there. The differences of 'opinions' out there are absolutely endless it seems.****[/u]

That's not the direction where I had hoped this initial post would go. But only to show the absolute necessity of us each to know His Word for ourselves, because only "It" can protect us.

I know you believe that way also, so this is by no means against your post.


The N.T. was written in "the language of the people" or "street language" (Koine) so that "everyone" could understand it.

I guess that's how I write too. By choice, and for the same reason.


Love in Him.

Annie
End quote to Saved-Matt.






Have a nice day Philo.[/b]






 2005/8/17 7:12





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