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Everlast
Member



Joined: 2003/10/16
Posts: 63
Missouri

 Third Day Church Arising

Just wondered if anyone has any information or thoughts about the third day movement. Not particularly impressed (in fact somewhat disquieted). Thanks.


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Shelly

 2003/10/31 1:01Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Third Day Church Arising

hi Everlast
A search for ‘third day church rising’ took me to an article by
Chuck D. Pierce
Searching on Chuck D. Pierce took me to
Global Harvest Ministries http://www.globalharvestministries.org/
Scouring that site produced a list of key personnel involved at
http://www.wagnerleadership.org/

These names will probably mean much more to you than to folk this side of the water. While I don't believe in 'guilt by association' travelling companions are usually some kind of indication of direction.


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Ron Bailey

 2003/10/31 5:00Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

I looked on the global harverst ministries site and found this statement:

Peter Wagner is the President of the Global Harvest Ministries and Chancellor of the Wagner Leadership Institute. Established in 1998, the Institute equips men and women for leadership positions in churches and translocal ministries. It is designed especially, but not exclusively, to meet the needs of leaders who have become a part of the New Apostolic reformation.

Which led me to this statement about the "New Apostolic reformation":

The New Apostolic Reformation is an extraordinary work of God at the close of the twentieth century, which is, to a significant extent, changing the shape of Protestant Christianity around the world. For almost 500 years Christian churches have largely functioned within traditional denominational structures of one kind or another. Particularly in the 1990s, but with roots going back for almost a century, new forms and operational procedures began to emerge in areas such as local church government, interchurch relationships, financing, evangelism, missions, prayer, leadership selection and training, the role of supernatural power, worship and other important aspects of church life. Some of these changes are being seen within denominations themselves, but for the most part they are taking the form of loosely structured apostolic networks. In virtually every region of the world, these new apostolic churches constitute the fastest growing segment of Christianity.


Does anyone here have any more insight to what it is all about?


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Mark Nash

 2003/10/31 9:25Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Here is a bit more:[url=http://www.agetwoage.org/ApostolicJustFacts1.htm]http://www.agetwoage.org/ApostolicJustFacts1.htm[/url]
It appears to be a balanced treatment...


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Mike Balog

 2003/10/31 9:49Profile
Everlast
Member



Joined: 2003/10/16
Posts: 63
Missouri

 Re: third day church

See, my very basic understanding is that the general belief of the third day church arising group is a kingdom now doctrine. They believe that we are in the third millenium, or the seventh millenium (looking at the creation of man and how a day could be a thousand years). That the church will overcome the world and at the end of the thousand years Christ will return. One of the particular churches here in Missouri has some very questionable practices, at least to me. You are required to tithe 10%, which I understand, however, they know how much you make because you are required to tell them, then if you don't give your 10% they call and ride you about it. Also you are not allowed to miss any function, ie Sunday service, Wednesday service and any other Bible studies in between. If you consistently miss, even with an extremely valid reason (sickness or financial restrictions--you need to work) they will eventually kick you out of the church. Also they preach the "give so you can get more" aspect of tithing and offerings. They urge (press, push, require) that you give more so that you may be blessed...and if you are not blessed; either financially, spiritually, etc., then you have not given enough. Just my thoughts....


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Shelly

 2003/10/31 10:14Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Yup, I think you're right and I think they are wrong. Its another version of the 'latter rain' teaching I think.


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Ron Bailey

 2003/10/31 12:27Profile
Philip
Member



Joined: 2003/10/23
Posts: 26
Kansas, USA

 Re: Forced Tithing

I have 2 churches in the area that I am in that are leaning toward the doctrine Everlast describes, especially the push toward money. If you don't tithe you can't teach, or be involved in ministry. They also call you to see why you are not giving or why you have not shown up to services. I challenge them to show from the scriptures that tithing is a new testament requirement. It is part of the law, just as circumsion. We need to be careful, lest we teach as commandments the doctrines of men. If you give because a man commanded and not because the Lord has laid it on your heart, then your reasoning is wrong. The fear of men brings a snare. When we trust what men say over the word of God, we begin get on shaky ground, no matter what form of belief we are in. Seek Christ! Any other thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Philip

 2003/10/31 13:07Profile
Everlast
Member



Joined: 2003/10/16
Posts: 63
Missouri

 Re:

I agree with Philip, that when we trust man over God then we are definitely on shaky ground. This particular church and organization is also involved with "prophetic" ministry. I am very leary of anyone who calls themselves a prophet, says the "Lord says" and expects for it to be followed. I happened to witness a "prayer meeting" last night by people of this organization...all I could do was pray that these people would truly see the Lord, and not some man who proclaims himself to be a prophet. I think perhaps there needs to be more preaching and teaching of using wisdom and discernment when encountering those who appoint themselves as bishops, apostles, prophets, or what have you; so as not to be easily led down the wrong path. I can also say that this group was not overly open in their motives...see, they met at our church building last night...but they were only given permission to use our building because our Senior Pastor was under the impression that they were simply meeting for a prayer workshop. They did not come up front and say that they were of the third day church arising teachings...this is being deceitful and dishonest. I feel that if they are truly of a biblical and scriptural basis...then there is no need to omit certain important details. Our pastor would not have given permission had he realized their intentions. I find it very sad when people can not be up front about what they are doing. To me that only confirms that they are not in God's will.


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Shelly

 2003/10/31 14:36Profile
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Everlast,
YOu wrote:

" I can also say that this group was not overly open in their motives...see, they met at our church building last night...but they were only given permission to use our building because our Senior Pastor was under the impression that they were simply meeting for a prayer workshop. They did not come up front and say that they were of the third day church arising teachings...this is being deceitful and dishonest. I feel that if they are truly of a biblical and scriptural basis...then there is no need to omit certain important details."

I had never heard of this third day arising thing before this thread, but just wanted to give some insight on what you said above. That is, that not being overly open in your motives is deceitful and dishonest.

This made me think about evangelism. Do we come right out in the beginning of talking with someone and very clearly and plainly say, "I am a Protestant Christian and I am about to share with you the good news about Jesus Christ and the bad news about Hell."

Maybe you do, but I think you'll agree with me that there's many legitimate Christians out there that are not so up front in their approach. Not that they're hiding something or intentionally being dishonest, it just seems unnecessary and even awkward to present things in that manner in most situations. Now if they ask you a direct question and you lie, then that's obviously dishonest.

Or what if you were a preacher and you got invited to preach at a church that you new was tied to formalism and was very cold. Inside you would likely have a motive to edify them and build them up. And you might go in knowing that you might be speaking on some things that they are not really comfortable with (like the fire of GOd, etc.). THings they might label "charasmatic." Would you be dishonest if you didn't come right out in the beginning of your sermon and declare "In this sermon I am going to teach you some charasmatic teachings" (or something to that effect)?

See what I am saying? What do you think?

 2003/10/31 19:19Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Third Day Church Arising

"third day"

I've personally heard it called "Third Wave," never "Third Day." Some also refer to it as the "apostolic and prophetic movement" or the "neo-charismatic movement." I am not a fan of the movement, as they have some very shaky teachings regarding many things. I believe very much in the apostolic, and modern day apostles and prophets, and that God is surely doing something throughout the world. However, I am not a fan of this movement, and when I hear individuals being fans of them... I tend to be rather skeptical of that individual.


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Jimmy H

 2003/10/31 21:54Profile





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