SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : But after this the....

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 )
PosterThread









 Re: Rev. 20

Hi y'all,

I forgot about this thread. Where's my head ? ;-)

I think Rev. 20 answers a lot of this real quick.

Verses 4-6 talk about "The First Resurrection", which has been re-named 'the rapture' (but that's another thread somewhere's :)
But when He Comes, the antiChrist is destroyed by "the Brightness of His Appearing", the same "fire" that judges all on earth at His Coming. The tares are burnt up the wheat harvested (resurrected). Matt.13 & 25.

The tares will then await "the second death".

Then After the 1000 yr. reign of Christ on earth, Satan is loosed, (yuck), and of course, some heck breaks loose with that, "then" after the Lord puts a Final End to all of that nonsense ... then those who died saved (who were saved during the 1000 yr.s) and the unsaved (dead) will be Judged ("the second death" for the unsaved).

Jesus says, enough times, in both the old and new Testaments, that He Comes "and His reward is with Him", that is at the 1st Resurrection.

Our works are "tried by fire", but the fire is His Appearing - the same fire that takes out antiChrist and then we'll all stand before His throne in Jerusalem. Matt. 25
Sheep to the right - goats to the left (judgment seat of Christ Rom 14:10, 2Co 5:10.)

Once you're in your resurrected body, which is an instantaneous thing, you can just about say, you have your "reward", in that sense.

But there will be differing levels of "reward",(that's determined at the judgment seat), as it says, we'll "rule & reign With Christ" for that 1000 yr.s and to me personally, the "reward" IS Christ, and the reward would be, being in any position that let's me be near to him. As near as possible, during that time and after. He is our reward.

There is talk from Paul, etc. about "crowns", but we throw them at His feet. Of course :-) .

I guess if you take all the end time verses you can find, and put them on one page, they fit together perfectly, just like a perfect puzzle.

I can only recommend that one start with Rev. 20 and work back from there.



P.S. How blessed you were Chris, to have that opportunity to hear such sound council. Praise God !!


Blessings.

Annie

 2005/8/21 3:56









 Re: But after this the

Quote:
The only complete authority we can take in all matters of doctrine and faith are what we feel the Spirit has revealed to us from the Word.

Hi Chris,

With you all the way here and glad you responded to Preach's post, as it was more powerful coming from you, who had had the convo with Bro Ravenhill. Strangely enough, I had prepared a reply including your testimony of that meeting, (though of course, not nearly as complete and authoritative) which disappeared before I could post it.

Instead, my discovery that '[b]the book[/b] of the law' is always singular, contributes something original to this discussion, as it cannot account for [b]the books[/b] (apart from the book of life) in Rev 20.

 2005/8/21 6:26









 Re: How to lose friends - Hope not !

Quote:
The only complete authority we can take in all matters of doctrine and faith are what we feel the Spirit has revealed to us from the Word.




I try to never 'counter-post' Anyone, unless it's something somewhat sizable.

This is a statement, that I fear to disagree with, because of .... well, you know youse guys. Some of you folks have been Very kind to me on here.

So if you can forgive me if I say, this statement is not exactly right ... actually it's quite dangerous.

The Holy Spirit will "lead" you into all truth, but not by "feeling", but by 'intense' study of His Word, and leading us BY the Word.

The Word won't contradict itself, when trying to find out the truth on a specific "doctrine".

The trick is though, is finding every single verse on that particular topic/teaching/doctrine that pertains to it.

Then, with the Lord (His Spirit's Wisdom), "connect the dots".

Any Major Doctrine, will have virtually endless pages of Scripture to back it up, that compliment each other, and fit together as a clear cut puzzle.

If that's not happening, we need to go back and pray and try again.

That's why I like all of these Bible Programs, because you can type in a word, and Up come all the verses.

Before I had to sit there with that tiny printed Strong's and then write out all the verses. Phew !

I have a sloppy saying, but it is nonetheless true.
To prove a major doctrine, you must have a Truckload of Scripture that clearly and Literally (not spiritualizing the texts) to prove the doctrine.

Everywhere possible, things should be read as literally as possible first. Only symbolism isn't literal, and would need other Scripture to interpret the symbolism, not us ... because Only Scripture can Interpret Scripture.

That's apologetics, and not a gift, but something we're all called to do.

I pray I haven't offended here at all and you know how many times I've posted John 16:13, and that still stands also... 100%.

They say, proper apologetics, will normally have a "both/and" to it.

i.e.,'Both' ~ We work out our 'own' salvation ~ 'And' , (because) it is God which works in you.

Jesus was 'both' God 'and' man.

He leads and we're told to Study.

Etc. Etc.

In the case of obedience, study, etc. etc. - you'll always see the "both/and" happening.

As in, from our side - it's a "co-operative fellowship" between us and the Holy Spirit.

Sound Doctrine must always come from The Word, and the Holy Spirit will guide and only confirm the doctrine 'by' the Word, and not feelings.


Still friends :-o ?

With His Love,

Annie

 2005/8/21 7:33
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Grannie...!

Quote:
by GrannieAnnie on 2005/8/21 6:33:14

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only complete authority we can take in all matters of doctrine and faith are what we feel the Spirit has revealed to us from the Word.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I try to never 'counter-post' Anyone, unless it's something somewhat sizable.

This is a statement, that I fear to disagree with, because of .... well, you know youse guys. Some of you folks have been Very kind to me on here.

So if you can forgive me if I say, this statement is not exactly right ... actually it's quite dangerous.

The Holy Spirit will "lead" you into all truth, but not by "feeling", but by 'intense' study of His Word, and leading us BY the Word.

Thank you, Grannie! I suppose that I should have clarified it to read, "[i]The only complete authority we can take in all matters of doctrine and faith are what we are [u]certain[/u] that the Spirit has revealed to us from the Word[/i]." I used the term [i][u]feel[/u][/i] in the sense of a [i]contemplated persuasion[/i], rather than an [i]emotional impression[/i]. I agree that it can be quite dangerous to be ruled by emotional feelings.

As is the case with many topics of discussion on this board, there are many varying opinions about doctrine. There are controversial threads where people have taken heated positions for and against:

- Is the "once saved/always saved" doctrine true?
- Is the King James is the only acceptable English version?
- "Tongues" and other pentecostal doctrines.
- Music - does God accept all forms of music?
- Women in ministry or leadership.
- Did Jesus go to Hell -- or just to the grave?
- Mega-churches
- Bible prophecy
- What constitutes "worldliness?"
- Marriage/Divorce
- How many judgments there are?
- etc...

Some of these topics are argued by very knowledgable men and women of God. And quite a few take very heated positions on an issue. It is disheartening to see many believers take such a position that they believe that those who do not agree with their particular opinion or doctrinal stand are either [u]lost[/u] or [u]spiritually blind[/u]. However, we are all pilgrims on the same journey through "[i]the wilderness of this world[/i]" (thank you, John Bunyan). Such disagreements on matters of doctrine are to be expected. Unfortunately, there are many christians that treat other believers harshly because of such differences of opinions.

I have noticed that, as I have grown, some of those "doctrinal stands" that I have taken were [i]wrong[/i]. Of course, at the time, I was [i]certain[/i] about what I believed. I could even argue with the best of them! I defended my beliefs with great tenacity. But over time, I was able to see "holes" in my beliefs that made me question my own doctrinal stands on some issues. Of course, this was never concerning completely [u]clear[/u] doctrinal issues from the Word (such as baptism, the attonement, etc...). In my opinion, believers should be patient with one another -- offering differences of opinions in matters of doctrine quite gently. But far too often, believers [i]blame God[/i] for their beliefs -- claiming that the [i]Spirit led them[/i] to their doctrinal position on even the tiniest matter of doctrine. As a result, such believers can often be quite [u]mean[/u] when [i]arguing for[/i] or [i]defending[/i] their position. Over time, these believers sometimes find that their position on an issue was not quite as firm as they once believed.

A friend told me once about an experience he had. He was speaking with a christian leader about some issues in our local church. Several times, my very sincere friend told this leader, "God told me this..." The minister kindly asked him, "Did God tell you that -- or did you just [i]figure it out[/i]?" My friend was floored! He realized that we often mistake our ability to "[i]figure things out[/i]" from the Word (or from what we are taught) with being "[i]led by the Spirit[/i]." Too often, people blame their beliefs on God, when it is that they are just figuring things out on their own with information that they gathered or were taught.

:-)

p.s. - Grannie -- we are not [u]just[/u] [i]friends[/i] -- we are brethren!
I greatly cherish your words and spiritual experience!
Thank you for sharing -- it is such a blessing!


_________________
Christopher

 2005/8/21 13:15Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
It is disheartening to see many believers take such a position that they believe that those who do not agree with their particular opinion or doctrinal stand are either lost or spiritually blind...In my opinion, believers should be patient with one another -- offering differences of opinions in matters of doctrine quite gently. But far too often, believers blame God for their beliefs.



I appreciate the persepctive of this statement. How much do we really know about the Lord? The vision of Christ revealed in scripture is but a glorious keyhole shining light into our darkness... On that fearful and joyous day when we see Him as He really is in unimaginable radiance...all of our precious opinions will seems like straw. Why else would we be asked to come to Him as a child if not to be simple and trusting instead of all-knowing and correct?


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/8/21 13:55Profile









 Re: But after this the ....

Quote:
The vision of Christ revealed in scripture is but a glorious keyhole shining light into our darkness... On that fearful and joyous day when we see Him as He really is in unimaginable radiance...all of our precious opinions will seems like straw.

Brother, you sure know how to harness words. This is what I'd call [i]perspective[/i]. Wow! 8-)

 2005/8/21 14:03









 Re:

Hia Chris,

I sorta "knew you knew".
But for the appearance and other's possibly... Well, I just wanted to help, if I could, to clarify a little.

When folks are saved, for let's say 5 to 10 yr.s, and they can't show you enough Scripture to back up what they believe or prove a TRUE Doctrine of the Church, it could appear in that case, that they have Not "studied" and "searched out" His Word.

Somehow, "obtaining what they DO believe, by some other method, other than study."

That's why I used the word apologetics, because we all should be able to define, "Scripturally" exactly 'Why' we believe, whatever we believe.

I've seen so many answer, "well, I just think ... " or "I've been 'led' to believe" - or - "So & so says", and on and on it goes.

I guess more than anything, I was trying to cover all bases in just that one post.


I've seen "spiritualizing" of verses... Verses that never were intended to be.

Or 'ideas' gleaned from the Bible, extended out from the mind, into all sorts of spiritualizing "mind pretzels".

This is when JUST 'the Mind' is in charge of matters, when as said, His word is 'spiritually discerned'.
~ 'All mind' and not the aid of His Spirit of Truth is JUST as dangerous as "all 'spirit' and no mind/effort at all".
Both are dangerous.



But to say, "We can't know", is not a good place to stand ... at least not for long.

We MUST know.

First because we are commanded to and secondly it can mean the future 'life or death' of us, when all heck breaks loose and deception is so rampant, even now.

Some doctrines (which only means "teachings") are & may be "critical" to us getting through to the end.

And true-truth, [u]Can[/u] be proved.
That is why we all believe in 'Absolutes' or 'absolute truth'.


If John 16:13 & others, didn't say "ALL" truth, than we could have excuse to "Not Know".

Though we "know in part" on 'some' things, we still should KNOW what we believe and be able to give the defense Scripturally, because we've been faithful to Study it out, with prayer.

With the last days upon us, I fear it's time more than ever, to really hunker-down and Know what we believe and why, by seeking God & His Word ... and maybe soon.

Love you all.

Annie

 2005/8/21 17:59





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy