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 Re: But after this the....

Ok Preach,

You sound like you're having fun and think you have a few answers up your sleeve. Please help me out with this one question(s) ;-).

On reading other parts of Revelation and other prophetic books, it is clear there is numeric symbolism as well as language containing numbers.

Here's my question: why do we take the 1000 years which is mentioned, as meaning 1000 years literally? Why would this number be literal, and others not?

Don't we suspect ever so slightly, this is 'code' for something other than 1000 years as we know them? For instance, in many other verses in the Bible, Old and New Testaments, 'day' means [u]age[/u] eg, the 'day of salvation' (2 Cor 6:2)

2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
But, beloved, be not [b]ignorant[/b] of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:8 (Young)
And this one thing let not be [b]unobserved[/b] by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;

 2005/8/11 19:01
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
On reading other parts of Revelation and other prophetic books, it is clear there is numeric symbolism as well as coded numeric language.



What examples come to mind?

HAHA I don't have answers. I'm no prophecy guru. All I am doing is taking what I have been taught and seeing if it is right/wrong and to see what parts make it weak or strong.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/8/11 19:06Profile









 Re: But after this the....

Quote:
All I am doing is taking what I have been taught and seeing if it is right/wrong and to see what parts make it weak or strong.

So far, has anything been clarified for you?

 2005/8/11 19:41









 Re: But after this the.....


Brother Jeff,

Thank you for posting all those verses about the judgment and judgments of the Lord. Seeing them laid out like that, helps show how different God's thinking is, than ours and precious must have been the word of God to the psalmist, delighting in it way over any other 'legal' system or idolatry. These days am being challenged to see Truth more objectively, and this helps. Thanks.

 2005/8/11 19:46
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
So far, has anything been clarified for you?



Hmmm.. somewhat...


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/8/11 19:51Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

preachparsly,

"Don't the believers have to be judged before the 1000 year reign?"

I think so.

"If we reign with Him, isn't there going to be some over more cities than others?"

I think yes on this one, too.

"I guess before that my question would be who does what in the 1000 year reign? Are tribulation saints different in this setting(Rev 20:4-6) from saints of old or of today?"

I'm open on this one, so I started another thread about the subject, but I do read this in Rev 7:14:

"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

If you don't mind red-hot sermons, John Rice discusses every detail of this subject in the sermon, "When Skeletons Come Out of the Closets":

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=20


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2005/8/11 20:53Profile









 Re: The Bema Judgment seat of rewards

Stever writes:

I have a very good Bible study on the Bema judgment seat of rewards, the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ:


THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF JESUS CHRIST

1. What is the Judgment seat (Bema) of Jesus Christ?

The "Bema seat" (or judgment seat) was an elevated seat, located in Corinth. At this seat in the square, Roman magistrates would sit and administer justice. Athletes may also have appeared here and received rewards for having distinguished themselves.
If a person is unsaved and dies in their sin, they will be judged at the "great white throne judgment" following the Millennium. If a person is a born-again believer in Jesus, they will be judged at the "judgment seat of Christ." Salvation is not an issue at this judgment. Their sins have already been forgiven. A person might then ask, how will we be judged? and for what will we be judged?
At this judgment, we must give an account of our life and what we did or did not do for the Lord. The believer's service to God will be reviewed and rewarded. For his lack of service or doing certain things, he will suffer loss. We will be held responsible for the things we did in our body. Every hidden thing will be made known. Every secret thing we said will be proclaimed; nothing will be hid. All believers must appear before this judgment seat.
So many Christians today think that doing this or that worldly thing is more important than spending the time in God's Word and serving Jesus, witnessing to the lost, feeding the poor, and loving others as ourselves. At this judgment, we should indeed see how unimportant so many things we did really were. All of the extra time that was spent listening to a radio or television, or reading meaningless books, may cause us to lose rewards for eternity. All of the extra time that we wasted and spent doing so many meaningless things, such as running after money, pleasures, cares of this life (those things that were not of Jesus), these may now affect our rewards for eternity. This judgment is a judgment of receiving rewards and suffering loss of rewards. A Christian's true desire should be to hear the words, WELL DONE, THOU GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT-Mt 25:21. Paul's attitude should be the Christian's attitude. As it is written, YEA DOUBTLESS, AND I COUNT ALL THINGS BUT LOSS FOR THE EXCELLENCY OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST JESUS MY LORD: FOR WHOM I HAVE SUFFERED THE LOSS OF ALL THINGS, AND DO COUNT THEM BUT DUNG, THAT I MAY WIN CHRIST-Phili 3:8. Indeed, how important some worldly things or pleasures seem to the Christian now, yet how worthless they will be at this judgment. As a Christian, we need to believe the Gospel and live to please Jesus and not ourselves. We need to ask ourselves in the many things that we do, "What fruit for Jesus is in it? Is what I am doing pleasing to the Lord? Will this greatly hurt me by causing a loss of rewards?"

2-THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST IS FOR BELIEVERS

The judgment seat of Christ is for those who have passed from death unto life through Jesus Christ.
Verily, verily, i say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life-jn 5:24. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death-Ro 8:1,2.
For we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad-2 Cor 5:10.
WE SHALL ALL STAND BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST (or God’s judgment seat). FOR IT IS WRITTEN, AS I LIVE, SAITH THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS TO GOD. SO THEN EVERY ONE OF US SHALL GIVE (an) ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD-Romans 14:10-12.
THEREFORE THE UNGODLY SHALL NOT STAND IN THE JUDGMENT-Ps 1:5. FOR THE TIME IS COME THAT JUDGMENT MUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD: AND IF IT FIRST BEGIN AT US, WHAT SHALL THE END BE OF THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD? AND IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED, WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?-1 Peter 4:17,18.
Finally, know this, HEREIN IS OUR LOVE MADE PERFECT, THAT WE MAY HAVE BOLDNESS IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT: BECAUSE AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD-1 Jn 4:17.
Note the words, in 1 Cor 5:5-THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.

2 Cor 1:14-AS ALSO YE HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED US IN PART, THAT WE ARE YOUR REJOICING, EVEN AS YE ALSO ARE OURS IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.

The day of the Lord Jesus is considered, by many, to be the Rapture.

3-WHEN WILL THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST COME?

MARVEL NOT AT THIS: FOR THE HOUR IS COMING, IN THE WHICH ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE, AND (they) SHALL COME FORTH; THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE-Jn 5:28,29. It appears that this judgment shall be held at the time of the resurrection and Rapture.
IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? ALL THE DAYS OF MY APPOINTED TIME WILL I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME-Job 14:14. For IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN ONCE TO DIE, BUT AFTER THIS THE JUDGMENT-Heb 9:27.

4-JESUS SHALL JUDGE

It is written, AND HE COMMANDED US TO PREACH UNTO THE PEOPLE, AND TO TESTIFY THAT IT IS HE (Jesus) WHICH WAS ORDAINED OF GOD TO BE THE JUDGE OF QUICK (the living) AND DEAD-Acts 10:42. BECAUSE HE HATH APPOINTED A DAY, IN THE WHICH HE (Jesus) WILL JUDGE THE WORLD IN RIGHTEOUSNESS BY THAT MAN WHOM HE HATH ORDAINED; WHEREOF HE HATH GIVEN ASSURANCE UNTO ALL MEN, IN THAT HE HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD-Acts 17:31.
IN THE DAY WHEN GOD SHALL JUDGE THE SECRETS OF MEN BY JESUS CHRIST-Ro 2:16.

5-WHAT SHALL JUDGE US?

The judgment shall be ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL-Ro 2:16. The Bible, God's Word, the Law of liberty, will judge us at the judgment.
SO SPEAK YE, AND SO DO, AS THEY THAT SHALL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY-Ja 2:12.

6-WHY DO THE BORN-AGAIN APPEAR BEFORE THIS JUDGMENT?

It is written, THAT EVERY ONE MAY RECEIVE THE THINGS DONE IN HIS BODY, ACCORDING TO THAT HE HATH DONE, WHETHER IT BE GOOD OR BAD-2 Cor 5:10.

7-WHAT SHALL BE JUDGED?

FOR GOD SHALL BRING EVERY WORK INTO JUDGMENT, WITH EVERY SECRET THING, WHETHER IT BE GOOD, OR WHETHER IT BE EVIL-Ecc 12:14.

8-NOTHING SHALL BE HID

FOR NOTHING IS SECRET, THAT SHALL NOT BE MADE MANIFEST; NEITHER ANY THING HID, THAT SHALL NOT BE KNOWN AND COME ABROAD-Lk 8:17. FOR THERE IS NOTHING COVERED, THAT SHALL NOT BE REVEALED; NEITHER HID, THAT SHALL NOT BE KNOWN-Lk 12:2. FOR THERE IS NOTHING COVERED, THAT SHALL NOT BE REVEALED; AND HID, THAT SHALL NOT BE KNOWN-Mt 10:26.
THEREFORE JUDGE NOTHING BEFORE THE TIME, UNTIL THE LORD COME, WHO BOTH WILL BRING TO LIGHT THE HIDDEN THINGS OF DARKNESS, AND WILL MAKE MANIFEST (or make known) THE COUNSELS OF THE HEARTS: AND THEN SHALL EVERY MAN HAVE PRAISE OF GOD-1 Cor 4:5. For NOTHING IN ALL CREATION IS HIDDEN FROM GOD'S SIGHT. EVERYTHING IS UNCOVERED AND LAID BARE BEFORE THE EYES OF HIM TO WHOM WE MUST GIVE ACCOUNT-Heb 4:13 NIV.
In addition, know this, THAT EVERY IDLE WORD THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK, THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT-Mt 12:36.
Note: Nothing is secret. Nothing is hid. Everything shall be made known. All hidden things will be made known, even the thoughts of the heart. All things will be uncovered and open, and we will have to give an account. Even every idle word we speak, we will have to give an account for them.

9-EVEN WHAT YOU HAVE SPOKEN IN SECRET SHALL BE PROCLAIMED OPENLY

THEREFORE WHATSOEVER YE HAVE SPOKEN IN DARKNESS SHALL BE HEARD IN THE LIGHT; AND THAT WHICH YE HAVE SPOKEN IN THE EAR IN CLOSETS SHALL BE PROCLAIMED UPON THE HOUSETOPS-Lk 12:3. Consider, the most secret things you have ever spoken, which no one may know about, even these shall be proclaimed.


10-REWARDS---ACCORDING TO WHAT WE DID, WE SHALL RECEIVE REWARDS OR SUFFER LOSS OF REWARDS

Jesus receives the reward of the "precious fruit of the earth," the saints. It is written, BEHOLD, THE HUSBANDMAN WAITETH FOR THE PRECIOUS FRUIT OF THE EARTH, AND HATH LONG PATIENCE FOR IT, UNTIL HE RECEIVE THE EARLY AND LATTER RAIN-Ja 5:7.
According to what the saints do, they shall receive or lose rewards. It is written, I THE LORD SEARCH THE HEART, I TRY THE REINS, EVEN TO GIVE EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WAYS, AND ACCORDING TO THE FRUIT OF HIS DOINGS-Jere 17:10. God searches the heart; then, according to our ways and the fruit of our doings, we shall receive rewards.
TAKE HEED THEREFORE HOW YE HEAR: FOR WHOSOEVER HATH, TO HIM SHALL BE GIVEN-Lk 8:18. Each person is given a certain number of talents. Some will be good and faithful servants and will multiply what has been given to them. At the judgment, they will be rewarded according to what they have.
For EVERY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE MADE MANIFEST (or shown for what it is-NIV): FOR THE DAY SHALL DECLARE IT, BECAUSE IT SHALL BE REVEALED BY FIRE; AND THE FIRE SHALL TRY (or test) EVERY MAN'S WORK OF WHAT SORT IT IS (or will test the quality of each man's work-NIV). IF ANY MAN'S WORK ABIDE (or survives) WHICH HE HATH BUILT THEREUPON, HE SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD. IF ANY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE BURNED, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE (but only as one escaping through the flames-NIV)-1 Cor 3:13-15. What a waste, as some shall suffer a loss of rewards for eternity. Consider, there will be people at the judgment who will find that so much of what they did was of the flesh and not of God. It was of the world and not the Spirit. They shall have the great joy of being with Jesus forever; nevertheless, the rewards they might have had for eternity were lost as much of their works did not stand the test of fire.
Therefore, take heed, FOR HE THAT SOWETH TO HIS FLESH SHALL OF THE FLESH REAP CORRUPTION; BUT HE THAT SOWETH TO THE SPIRIT SHALL OF THE SPIRIT REAP LIFE EVERLASTING-Gal 6:8. Also, as already noted, EVERY IDLE WORD THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK, THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT-Mt 12:36.
For it is written, AND HE SAID UNTO THEM, TAKE HEED WHAT YE HEAR: WITH WHAT MEASURE YE METE (or use) (what you hear), IT SHALL BE MEASURED TO YOU (and even more); AND UNTO YOU THAT HEAR SHALL MORE BE GIVEN. FOR HE THAT HATH, TO HIM SHALL BE GIVEN: AND HE THAT HATH NOT, FROM HIM SHALL BE TAKEN EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH-Mk 4:24,25. WHOSOEVER HATH NOT, FROM HIM SHALL BE TAKEN EVEN THAT WHICH HE SEEMETH TO HAVE-Lk 8:18. Again, we note there will be a gain for some, but a loss for others. Beware of what you hear: for according to the amount you use (or what you hear), you shall receive that much more again; but if you do not use what you hear, even that which you have shall be taken away from you. It might be said, to you that are given knowledge and use it, you shall be given more; but to you that are given knowledge and do not use it, what you have shall be taken away.
It is written, WHOSOEVER THEREFORE SHALL BREAK ONE OF THESE LEAST COMMANDMENTS, AND SHALL TEACH MEN SO, HE SHALL BE CALLED "THE LEAST" IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN-Mt 5:19. Again, we appear to have a loss of rewards for those that break a least commandment and teach others to do the same.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I know that this has been a little long, but well worth the time! I have another one three times longer than this, with much more Scripture reference,if any one is interested.


God bless,

Stever

 2005/8/11 23:24









 Re:

Dorcas said:

On reading other parts of Revelation and other prophetic books, it is clear there is numeric symbolism as well as language containing numbers.

Here's my question: why do we take the 1000 years which is mentioned, as meaning 1000 years literally? Why would this number be literal, and others not?

2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:8 (Young)
And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Stever's response:

2 Peter chapter 3 is referring to prophecy, the prophecy of the Lord's return:

"3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Many believe that the Lord will return in 2 days, or two thousand years. The time is short!


God bless,

Stever

 2005/8/12 11:42









 Re: But after this the....

Quote:
PreachParsly: Hmmm.. somewhat...

It would be valuable to me to hear what you'd been taught and how you're redefining it in the light of a clearer understanding from scripture.
Quote:
Many believe that the Lord will return in 2 days, or two thousand years. The time is short!

Stever,

I see what you have written, but I don't see how it addresses the [i]meaning[/i] of my post quoting Peter.

 2005/8/12 12:15
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I belive that there will be the Judgement Seat of Christ (which is for belivers only) and the Great White Throne Judgement. I've just been thinking about it and seeing if there are any valid arguments that there is only one judgement.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/8/12 14:05Profile





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