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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Homosexuality in the Church Of England

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nobody
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Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 64


 Re:

TO JAKE:

If you don't like the idea of hell being preached you must think Jesus was nuts. I think reintroducing hell to our culture would be a wonderful and awesome thing. Fear of hell may not be the only reason for seeking God, but it is a huge part of the Gospel and can be quite effective (not in the church growth movement sense). Preaching hell is just the wake-up call that so many people need. You are right - many reject and hate it, but what are people being saved from other than God's wrath? If they aren't confronted with their real destination why should they alter their course?

Now for the sodomites. They may be right that they experience a strong pull in that direction from birth. We all have this towards sin due to our original sin problem. Everyone is pulled towards different sins to different degrees. Although God has permitted this situation to exist in his permissive will it is not his fault and if not repented of it leads to hell. This applies to all of us. I would never claim that this sin is in a category of its own or different in any real way from other evil. The sodomite gets the same deal as the rest of us. Repent and be saved or do what feels good and be condemned. I don't think of them differently from those who love to rape, steal, or lie and have no intention of quitting. I wish they'd stop for the sake of themselves and others.

 2003/12/13 18:40Profile









 Re:

Nobody wrote:

"I don't think of them differently from those who love to rape, steal, or lie and have no intention of quitting."

There is a qualitative difference in the sin of homosexuality in that raping, stealing and lying do not involve willing participants. In doing these things you violate another person. In the case of two consenting adults there is no unwanted violation.

 2003/12/15 9:56
5nva
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Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

Jake:

1 Cor. 6:18 - Flee immorality. Every sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the one who practices immorality sins against his own body.

1 Cor. 7:2-3 - But because of immorality, let each 'man' have his own 'wife', and let each 'woman' have her own 'husband'. Let the husband fulfill his duty to his wife and likewise also the 'wife to her 'husband.

1 Cor. 6:9 - Or do you not know that the unrightous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals...

v.11 - such 'WERE' some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.

James 1:21 - Therefore putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

Mike


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Mike

 2003/12/15 10:15Profile
nobody
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 64


 Re:

Your reply has the appearance of wisdom, but you forgot something important. When I offend against federal law I am prosecuted regardless of whether someone was injured. The government sees my act as rebellion against its authority regardless of who I hurt.

God makes himself the chief party that is offended at any sin. When I murder someone God is still the party chiefly offended, not the person or his family. Likewise, if I commit sin with the consent of all the people on earth, God is still equally offended. Popularity of the sin doesn't change His mind a bit, and neither does the fact that it hurts no one (which I strongly disagree with, but am playing your side a little here).

Let me say that when I have sounded harsh against this sin on this thread I have had in mind the sin and people who try to justify it. They need to be rebuked, cast out, and awakened before they wind up damned and damning others with their teaching. I have not had in mind the lost who do not try to justify this sin. They have my compassion and love, and I would never speak harshly about this issue to them until they claimed to have come to Christ without repenting.

 2003/12/16 11:02Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

John the Baptist trumpeted against the sins of His day. Did he offend people? YES. And in a few months or years of ministry he was killed. Is not his example a worthy one to follow?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/12/16 11:07Profile









 Re:

Perhaps, except that from what I understand John the Baptist did not accept Jesus as the Christ.

Jake

 2003/12/16 12:57
nobody
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 64


 Re:

Your understanding of John is quite lacking in my estimation.

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, "After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.' 31I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water."
32And John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, "Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' 34And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God."

Just because he sent some people later to ask Jesus to confirm He was the Christ does not mean that he rejected Him, but rather that he was simply confused about his imprisonment and wanted to be sure he could die in peace having fulfilled his work from God. He may have expected deliverance from the hand of Herod and it was very early in Christ's ministry, so possibly some doubts had set in. I am sure that after Christ's word of encouragement John had no fear for his fate or that his work was incomplete.

It seems impossible that John was in rejection against or complete disbelief of Christ at this point while at the same moment Christ is pronouncing that no prophet was ever greater than John.

On the subject of rebuking and casting out those who claim to be Christians but won't repent:

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
12For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

 2003/12/16 14:17Profile









 Re:


Actually, I hold John the Baptist in high esteem. I got the notion that he rejected Jesus from another post on this site. I guess I need to follow my own leadings.

Jake

 2003/12/16 14:32





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