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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Homosexuality in the Church Of England

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 Re:

I stand corrected on the Jesus quote.

Nevertheless, go and sin no more is impossible. Can anyone say that they have given up all sinful activity? And one sin is as good as another. A person born of a homosexual nature can no more easily quit being that than can a heterosexual deny his/her nature. (I do agree that some may be making a conscious choice. But there are clearly others for whom this is not a choice, as they have been of this nature for as long as they can remember.) Some of the activities listed can clearly be given up. (An alcoholic can stop drinking, but they will always be addicted to wine.) Theives can learn honest ways. But no one can make themselves sinfree. And thus we cannot judge others and hold them in contempt, as is being done in this particular discussion.

 2003/12/5 13:00
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

I am an elder in His church. I believe the qualifications for a leader are best summed up by 1 John 2:13, "I write to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning,..." Paul write to the Corinthians, "For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers..."1 Corinthians 4:15 I am not a father, as Paul or John would see. Both men are calling all to grow in the maturity of Christ. Jesus has much work to do in me. Yet, I know a father in the church will have learned to follow the Spirit of Christ. I know that the Spirit will cause a man to die to the flesh. I know the Spirit will lead a man in the paths of righteousness. I know the fruit of the Spirit. I am beginning to know the things of the Spirit. And I know that a self professed homosexual leader in the church has climbed into the sheep pen by another way. He has not enter through the door which is Christ.

These are strong words. But a father in His church will have known Him who is from the beginning. Even the young man that John writes of, "I write to you young men, because the word of God abides in you, AND YOU HAVE OVERCOME THE WICKED ONE." 1 John 2:14.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/5 13:31Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2749
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: quitting homosexuality

Jake wrote;

Quote:
A person born of a homosexual nature can no more easily quit being that than can a heterosexual deny his/her nature. (I do agree that some may be making a conscious choice. But there are clearly others for whom this is not a choice, as they have been of this nature for as long as they can remember.



You might be convinced that people cannot give up homosexuality, that is a popular belief these days. But it is not true. It might be true if they try on their own, but it is not true if they commit their lives to the Lord Jesus Christ and allow Him to change them. This is, of course, true of any and all sin, not just homosexuality.

Here is a link to a web site with many testimonies of people who have been delivered from homosexuality through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Many of these folks once thought as you do about their sin.

[url=http://www.stonewallrevisited.com/menus/pages.html]Stone Wall Revisited[/url]

May the Lord bless you yet more,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2003/12/5 18:32Profile
jouko
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Joined: 2003/10/9
Posts: 172
Ex-England colony of Australia

 Re:

If homosexuality was from birth what then do we make of these verses from Genesis ?

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Why is it that we have to accept anything and everything in todays society also in the church ? Because we have chosen to forget God's word as guidance and instead want to be accepted in the eyes of men and follow man made laws, anti discrimination being one of them, yet the same law discriminates against anybody that follows the commandments of God ?

In accordance with God's word we are to render a decision whether something is wrong or right ?
Is someones behaviour right or wrong morally ?
Is it scriptural or unscriptural ?
Is it of God, or is it of the flesh, or is it of the devil ?

1Co 6:5 I say this to move you to shame. What, cannot there be found among you one wise man who shall be able to decide between his brethren,

We are to discern and not just accept anything and by doing it biblically I don't believe we are holding anybody in contempt. By the fruits we are known.

Phi 1:11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are through Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy.

I don't hate the homosexual but the practice of homosexuality.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but by their works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

The same longsuffering as below is also available for a sinner today.

1Ti 1:15 Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
1Ti 1:16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

As for making myself sinfree, what would that make the grace of God ? Yes, I fail in a lot of ways but I have an intercessor on my behalf in heaven. My will is to die to myself and for Him to increase in me.

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.



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Jouko Hakola

 2003/12/5 19:49Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Hi Jake
your quote: go and sin no more is impossible. Can anyone say that they have given up all sinful activity? And one sin is as good as another. A person born of a homosexual nature can no more easily quit being that than can a heterosexual deny his/her nature.

It is also impossible to walk on water, or to stretch forth a withered arm. What makes the impossible possible is the enabling word of Christ.

This is Charles Wesley :
'Twas most impossible of all
That here sin's reign in me should cease
Yet shall it be, I know it shall
Jesus, Look to Thy faithfulness!
If nothing is too hard for Thee,
All things are possible to me

and this, our mutual friend Robert Barclay in 1675
The Eight Proposition
Concerning Perfection

In whom this holy and pure birth is fully brought forth, the body of death and sin comes to be crucified and removed, and their hearts united and subjected unto the truth, so as not to obey any suggestion or temptation of the evil one, but to be free from actual sinning, and transgressing of the law of God, and in that respect perfect. Yet doth this perfection still admit of a growth; and there remaineth a possibility of sinning, where the mind doth not most diligently and watchfully attend unto the Lord.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2003/12/6 3:16Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Nevertheless, go and sin no more is impossible.



Blasphemey. You do not know the power of the cross nor the power of the resurrection. The cross causes the flesh and its lusts to die. The resurrection gives the same body life to do what it could have never done otherwise. It gives the flesh the power to live according to the Spirit of God.

Romans 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 Buf if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.


A born again Christian is no longer obligated to sin. To "go and sin no more" is a reality that the Christian can enjoy. For the same power that raised Christ from the dead is living inside us, to give us strength. Surely, if that power could overcome death, then it can overcome temptation and sin.

The Scriptures clearly teach a Christian is not required to sin. They can go the rest of their lives, no matter how short or how long, and never sin again because of the power of the risen Lord Jesus Christ.


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Jimmy H

 2003/12/6 16:43Profile









 Re:


My faith is in the forgiveness of sin through grace. I also seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in daily activity. These offer me a way to negate sin in my life. But this does not mean that I will not sin again; I recognize human frailty. I count upon grace and do my best to live in harmony with my fellow human beings and nature. But the way that Jesus has described sin makes it clear to me that while I cannot attain a sinfree life, striving for this is what makes the difference.

Do not deceive yourselves into thinking you are Holy because you believe in Christ.

 2003/12/8 10:22
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

Quote:
My faith is in the forgiveness of sin through grace...



Many mistake God's attribute of mercy with His provision of grace. Grace is the power, the unmerited favour, that God's enables us with. First it is given to prepare the vessel. This enables us to come near to Him. This part of life with the Holy Spirit is a time of conviction and victory over the wicked one and our flesh. Once prepared by the grace of God, we are sent out to do His work.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before hand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10.

God's attribute of mercy is reflected in His loving nature for His creation. Many today seperate the God of the books of Moses and the Prophets with the God of New Testament. Jesus is coming back a second time!

"By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; and before all the people I must be glorified." Leviticus 10:3

Ananias and Sapphira experienced to God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/8 10:52Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Hi Jake
your quote:But the way that Jesus has described sin makes it clear to me that while I cannot attain a sinfree life, striving for this is what makes the difference.

Do not deceive yourselves into thinking you are Holy because you believe in Christ.

Now you are confusing justification with sanctification. Please tell me where Jesus said that 'striving for a sinfree life.. is what makes the difference'.

your quote:These offer me a way to negate sin in my life

Please explain how sin can be 'negated'. I can see from the bible how it can be covered, forgiven, remitted, cleansed, removed, washed, and a few more, but would like to understand 'negated'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2003/12/8 11:21Profile









 Re:

Philologos,

Whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child cannot enter it. (Lk 10:15)

You are intellectualizing the forgiveness of sin.

I realize that much of our differences arise from a fundamental difference in the way we view the Bible. For instance, I see Paul as a great evangelist who got a lot of stuff wrong. His job was to spread the word, and he did that. But in many places he revised what Jesus taught. Thus I always try to go to the original source in interpreting Paul.

I divide the Christian faith into what I call Christians and Paulians. In many cases the later have fallen away from the original intent of Jesus. (This is what the Spirit tells me.)

Faith has to be a simple matter because it is beyond reason. I cannot justifiy myself and so neither can I justify forgiveness of sin. It is simply a gift that I accept.

Jake

 2003/12/8 11:51





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