Well..I have never started a thread before but here goes..
I am just throwing this out there...what does everyone think abt the modern defense of the faith? Does it hold water? Do you really think that non-Christians think we have it all together? Do you really think that we address all of the issues that man has before God?
ok...as far as my 2 cents go here..I have to say no. I think old time philosophers (and a few new ones)..had it much more together than we do. I recently heard a pastor claim that we shud argue the validity of the Bible and its credibility by comparing God it to Shakespeare's work..and I quote.."well people honor shakespeare and give him credibility so why not the Bible"...i was speechless.
I am an english major (triplr major for those of u whp have seen my other post..lol)..and I know that this argument does not hold water ..no one believes Shakespeare to write accurate stories, but only to write good ones..lol. How does this prove the VALIDITY of the Bible? I have also heard pastors preach on evolution with arguments that do not hold water...and the non-christian atendees always notice this and the pastors enever want to address their questions?
Why are we so scared to seek the truth nowadays? We wud rather cower in our ambiguous, vague perceptions of truth rather than go all the way with God...we DO have the ultimate truth..so don't be afraid to search for its deeper extensions! There are answers to these questions but we are too scared to venture to find them..too comfortable in our Sunday morning pews, in our secure friendships,.kinda sad :(
| 2005/8/7 3:02||Profile|
| Re: Truth|
I came across an surprising statement from Martyn Lloyd Jones:
I am not sure that apologetics has not been the curse of evangelical Christianity for the last 20/30 years....bearing in mind that this quotation must know be at least 50 year old!
| 2005/8/7 17:40||Profile|
I once heard B.H. Clendennen say,
God Doesn't need apologists to argue for Him, He need's men willing to be broken and contrite before Him who He can fill with His Spirit and send out into a lost world.
I've read quite a bit of apologetics (C.S. Lewis, Answers in Genesis, etc.) and rarely use it in evangelism.
someone once told me 'if you can argue someone into something, someone else can argue them out of it'
the further i go on with God the less prevalent apologetics is to me.
| 2005/8/7 18:14||Profile|
| Re: Truth|
Now I'm not a professional, but I just ran my thoughts on this.. won't it eventually lead the focus more away from God?
You would have to do so much research on this/these matter(s) to be able to counter every man made argument.. I can't do that, I'm sure God doesn't want us to focus on that. Apologetics can surely be a great help if used correctly but nothing more.
I have the idea that people who want facts before they start believing won't be happy till they can measure God, put Him in a testtube and run some diagnoses on Him.
A few days ago I had a chat (during a computergame :-?) with someone and we talked about God for a couple of hours. What he did was asking me a lot trick questions. Even though, he heared me out and he admitted that what I said would make sense and give purpose to it all.(Things about God, satan, sin, etc) But at the end he still didn't believe in God, satan, heaven, hell and the Bible as the Word of God which is neccesary.
A few days later I saw him online again, and I wanted to continue our talk so he would atleast be thinking about God.
I made an error though, I started talking about evolution to get us into the talk.. well I shouldn't have started with that.. at the end I gave the argument that there couldn't suddenly come life out something dead. (Well now I think of it -God can- but you get my point I hope) Eventually the guy said that scientists have succeeded in creating life and that I should google for it if I wanted proof. :-(
That is not what I want to put the focus on. However I've read this text not to long ago:
[i]6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.[/i]
Seasoned with salt.. now I haven't done any study about this text or about 'salt'.. but didn't Jesus warn us not to loose our 'taste'?
| 2005/8/7 18:52||Profile|
| Re: Truth|
I agree with your assessment of the modern state of Christianity. There are many Christians who valiantly and loudly defend the faith. Unfortunately, many of these believers do not do a very good job in their defense.
There are so many believers who know [i]WHAT[/i] they believe. However, there are far fewer who know [i]WHY[/i] they believe what they profess. I know so many believers who accept a doctrine almost solely on the word of a pastor, teacher, or well-respected man of God. Now, these believers don't state that they believe such doctrine based on the words or writings of a man. The claim is often, "God told me..." Yet often, their beliefs do not "hold water" with the Word -- or they don't know any Scripture that valididates their beliefs. Often, a doctrine has been so widely accepted by believers for so many years, that it is no longer questioned or discussed. Believers are often encouraged to unconditionally accept it as [i]truth[/i], yet is this what God desires? Does God really want us to accept such things unconditionally -- without a search to comprehend whether such doctrine is really based on the Word?
I asked a group at Church one day, "Do you believe in the Rapture?" Nearly every believer stated a-matter-of-factly, "Of course!" Then I asked, "How do you know? Why do you believe?" Not one of them (in a group of over 25) could tell me a verse that supported their belief. I pointed out several verses, which they all tended to say, "Oh yeah, I remember that one." But no one could give adequate defense for their beliefs.
This is just one example of believers who profess to believe a certain doctrine -- yet cannot explain why they believe. And if such Christians have a difficult time explaining to a believer (who often shares the same beliefs), how will they be able to have an answer for those who do not believe?
Perhaps there is a lack of "searching" within the Church today. We easily accept the words of a man of God, yet we never challenge or seek out whether or not such teachings are truth. Such blind faith is dangerous. Such trust given to the wrong person can be harmful to many. Yes, we should accept the Word without reservation. But we should not accept what a man says about the Word without searching out whether or not such statements or doctrines are true (I Thessalonians 5:21; Acts 17:10-11).
God help the Church to know WHAT we believe. But more importantly, God help the Church to know with certainty and true faith WHY we believe!
| 2005/8/7 19:46||Profile|
| Re: Truth|
1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear"
I agree with Comfort. Don't bring up a topic that will end up in a rabbit trail during one-on-one evangelism. After you show them their sins, and ask them if their guilt on judgement day leading to hell concerns them, then you can answer questions. If they refuse to admit their guilt before God, arguing evolution is pointless. You can agree creation and still go to hell. We should still know the topics to be ready to answer questions, though.
Ravenhill said that a true descendant of the Hebrew prophet doesn't attack the emotion or the intellect, but the conscience.
I am in agreement with the spirit of the other posts (chris and 722 had some good points).
| 2005/8/7 20:12||Profile|
on the contrary....in my *personal* experience, quite the opposite has happened. I am gonna venture to a place here that maybe I shud not..lol..but..
** keep in mind that this mostly applies to only a certain type of people...i certainly do not evangelize the exact same way to everyone i meet..I meet them where they are at..i pray to allow the holy spirit to speak thru me to reach that person wherever they are at***
Truth is not relative..and therefore it simply IS (just as God is)...and so ..i believe it can be proven...and we have an obligation to defend the faith...how else do we do that? Our FAITH rests in the word of God..and so we must even be able to defend it...so that means...going beyond the word to prove it thru simple, sheer truth. This takes great investigating of the word in its original form at times..etc..and also understanding certain concepts in philosophy and science etc...a daunting task you say? Not for the God that dwells in me! ;)
Now..if we are not well educated on the subject then we can run into problems such as what u have mentioned here...but there are answers to even this conflict...they are in the very word of God and they can be found thru much fervent prayer and thru seeking God. and yes..thru investigating..but keep in mind here..the God is helping us all the way thru his Spirit, and we shud only be willing to do g=for God what we so readily do for school, work, and other things....What I mean to say is that I have noticed (and pls...nobody take offense by this..i truly am not seeking to offend)...but i have noticed that many christians simply accept the commom creed known to us and passed down to us without truly having gained the direct revelation of it from God.
Lets face it...there are well educated people out there who want truth ...or at least honesty and humilty. One thing to point out is that there are "holes" in the non-christian theories as well...when they are faced with someone who seems to at least understand where they are coming from..and who has taken the time to become TRULY (not biasedly) informed...they listen...and they see the holes in their own theories..and from personal experience...that it causes a yearning in people and pushes them out of their comfort zones.
***AGAIN..PLS..DO NOT BE OFFENDED BY MY VIEWS...AFTER THEY ARE SIMPLY MY VIEWS AND I CUD VERY POSSIBLY BE DEAD WRONG...lol
| 2005/8/7 23:41||Profile|