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 Re:

Yes, each person (physical body) dies once. It wouldn't be death if it could happen more than once, would it? It does not matter that the Bible doesn't support or reference reincarnation. It doesn't purport to contain all knowledge, just the knowledge of salvation. There are lots of things that we have to find out by exploring the world around us. Moreover, it doesn't say each soul only dies once, because souls don't die. If you read the "Old Souls" book and find a rational way to explain what it presents without incorporation of reincarnation, I would like to hear it.

 2003/10/30 16:46
almondBranch
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Joined: 2003/10/6
Posts: 91
Tralee, Ireland

 Re:

2Co 5:10 For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The idea of reincarnation has no compatibility whatsoever with the biblical teachings of ressurection, regeneration or judgement. A man (or woman) must be born agin not pass through differnt incarnations progressing gradualy in each. The dead must be raised not arive at the finish line passing from one body to the next like a relay race and finaly they must stand judgment for the things done in the body not in many lifetimes.

You will find people who have visons, dreams, aparitions etc that will prove any doctrine on the face of the planet but as those aprehended by God we must not go beyond that which is written nor take our stand on different peoples visions.

Col 2:18-19 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head

In love, Stuart


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Stuart

 2003/10/30 16:55Profile









 Re:

Yes there are crazy people out their with crazy visions that can lead people astray. Nevertheless, if you let Biblical fundamentalism block out clear and compeling evidence, then you are also likely blocking out the continuing presence of the Holy Spirit, which leads us unto all truth.

The Bible says nothing about gravity. But it is real.

 2003/10/30 17:03
philologos
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 Re:

G K Chesterton once wrote:
"When people cease to believe the Bible,
the danger is not that they will believe nothing,
but that they will believe anything"


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Ron Bailey

 2003/10/30 17:11Profile
almondBranch
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 Re:

Quote:
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord



I hope that this doesn't seem like nitpicking but the scripture actualy reads:
[i]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord[/i]

the emphasis is slightly differnt.

The realationship between time and eternity is very interesting as are some of the discoveries made about time in the last centuary, to know taht if someone were to travel at the speed of light time for them would be completly differnt than it is for us. We can't travel at the speed of light (yet!) but we do know that God dwells in light that no man approaches so to say as david and peter both did that time for God is differnt than for us is quite scientific.

I don't know if anyone here has ever studied bible chronology but the writings of edward denny, arthur ware and frank paine are very interesting. they show how throughout the bible (and history in general) God has had different "clocks" running but when he needs to he just stops one and takes no account of the time that passes when the "clock" is stopped.

Anyway I digress.

stuart.


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Stuart

 2003/10/30 17:12Profile
almondBranch
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 Re:

Quote:
Yes there are crazy people out their with crazy visions that can lead people astray



Actualy many of them are not crazy people atall but we do have an enemy whose schemes include leading people away from truth on the contrary the Holy Spirit desires to lead us into all truth.

Jesus said to the Father "Your word is truth"

Read the book "death of a guru" by Rabi Maharaj, a hindu who was set free by the Lord Jesus Christ from the tormenting demons that drive hinduism. He was a very sane man who had many mystical experiences but none of them led him to peace with God. The same devil that drives hinduism in the east promotes many of the same doctrines in a "christian" form in the west.

If reincarnation were true I am sure that passing from one incarnation to another would have some bearing on the ay of salvation. Yet the bible which you say was writtten to siply show us the way of salvation mentions nothing of this idea. Think about it.

Stuart


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Stuart

 2003/10/30 17:22Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
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 Re:

First let me say thank you Stuart for bringing up this thought provoking topic and sharing your views with us.

I have one question so far that has come to mind as I pondered your ideas. How does the following passage fit into your views on death?

Luke 23:42-43 [i]And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.[/i]

In Christ,

Ron



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Ron Halverson

 2003/10/30 19:54Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
I recall the conversation between Martha and the Lord. Martha says 'I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day'. Martha, 'time-bound', can only think linear. Christ says "I am the resurrection.. whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" The eternal 'I am' lives in the 'now'. Where Christ is, the resurrection is 'now' not 'in the last day'.


Ron, I think this is great! We are already [b]dead[/b] and our [b]life[/b] is hid in Christ.

[b]Colossians 3:3-4[/b] - For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Quote:
If anyone understand this post I would be grateful if you would explain it to me!



[b]Daniel 12:13 (kjv)[/b] - But go thou way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

[b]Daniel 12:13 (niv)[/b] - As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to recieve your allotted inheritance.

[b]1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (kjv)[/b] - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the [u]dead in Christ[/u] shall rise first: Then we which are [u]alive and remain[/u] shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be wtih the Lord.

I gleam from these verses that there is a time of 'rest' or 'sleep' where our soul waits to be rise to judgement and inheritance in heaven. It's like when you actually go to sleep and wake up and sometimes it seems like just a few minutes but hours has passed and your body is renewed.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/10/30 20:23Profile
almondBranch
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 Re:

Quote:
I have one question so far that has come to mind as I pondered your ideas. How does the following passage fit into your views on death?



I was wondering when that one would be brought up!

Well there are two possibilities (that fit with the views that I put forth)

1) translate the verse as Rotherham does, verily I say unto thee thee this day: with me shalt thou be in paradise.

2)Back to the time thing again. What does the word day signify? its a rotation of the earth on its axis which takes 24 hours. What relavence has that to paradise if taken literaly? does that mean in paradise on friday evening? I don't mean that flippantly I am just trying to provoke thought. If the thief went (in God's timing) straight from death on the cross into his glorified body at the ressurection then it ould be considerd "this day"

It could also be asked how people fit the quote from Luke 23 along with the scriptures which speak of His soul being in Hades and His spirit being commited into the Father's hands.

un-dogmaticaly, stuart.


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Stuart

 2003/10/30 20:27Profile
InTheLight
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 Re:

Quote:
) translate the verse as Rotherham does, verily I say unto thee thee this day: with me shalt thou be in paradise.



This seems a poor rendering and few scholars support it. It just doesn't make sense for the Lord Jesus to signify the time when He said this and not when the thief would be with Him in paradise. I think this rendering is invented to support a conclusion.

Quote:
Back to the time thing again. What does the word day signify? its a rotation of the earth on its axis which takes 24 hours. What relavence has that to paradise if taken literaly? does that mean in paradise on friday evening? I don't mean that flippantly I am just trying to provoke thought. If the thief went (in God's timing) straight from death on the cross into his glorified body at the ressurection then it ould be considerd "this day"



It seems to me the Lord Jesus would be speaking to this man in terms he could understand. It seems clear (to me anyway) that He is telling the thief that not even a moment would go by that they would be apart, but that together they would go to paradise. That before the day was over they would both be there.

It's interesting to note that He knew they would both die that day, often death by crucifiction took several days. But Jesus assured him that "that" day his prayer would be answered.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2003/10/30 22:12Profile





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