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Discussion Forum : General Topics : An Interview With a Modern-Day, Sunday-Morning-Church-Going Christian

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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

I too have experienced "a church" that disappoints. I too have been caught up in religion. I too have pursued leadership positions within "a church." I too have seen others pursue and strive for position. It all leave a bitter taste like that of wormwood.

"The Church" I have found is not like the things of the past. It is something new and refreshing. I have found a few men here at work whose lives are being transformed by the Word of God. Fellowship happens because we have something to share with each other. The "substance" of what we share continues to point us towards Christ. We begin to share our hearts, our shortcommings, our needs. We teach each other about the ways the Word of God gives us understanding in the day to day routines that we have. As Brother Ron has pointed out before, the definition of "The Church" can be understood as the "ones that are called out."

I have begun to see the works of God in this way. The substance of what we hope for cannot be satisfied by the ways of this world. We leave the things we once hoped for because the substance of what God provides in our daily lives far exceeds anything this world offers. The joy of fellowship with those who have found the path is very satisfying.

A group of people that meets once or twice a week at locations which have predeterminded methods of worship and teaching seem strange to me now. Living daily with others who walk this path framed by the Holy Scriptures continues to taste like honey. The truth we learn as we share with each other daily of what is happening in our lives provides the "substance" of what we hope for. The evidence of the work of God in our lives reflects the light that is in us.

Have you experienced the work of God that seperates?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/8/10 15:44Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

This has been like this for some 10+ years now with little difficulty, but the circumstances are a bit different because there is no money involved. Ahah! I said it. is that the real issue here?



Ha!!! Had anybody been home when I read this they would've wondered why I was laughing so nuts. I think there is something to the entire money deal though, and a big need for certain individuals i.e. the pastor, to dominate a meeting. I've noticed that most pastors have a sense of "control" when it comes to the meeting, because if there is any major problem during a service, especially in regard to performance, then they are likely to start suffering in the offering plate. But, if you simply get them around a group of believers over the dinner table, they lose this sense of control that they otherwise feel they must have. They don't feel the need to control the "order of service" when we are sitting around eating a hotdog and drinking a soda. $$$ perhaps has something to do with it.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/8/10 16:01Profile









 Re: Interview with Frank Viola - worship

Quote:
The old school pentecostals would 'rev up' a service with high speed songs and such until there was a great excitement.

In a way, I've wondered what that was about... I thought it was just denominational culture, as opposed to a particular strand of theology.

Quote:
When I came to Christ in 1991 the trend was towards slower and more solemn songs. I suppose the slower songs are more of the 'atmosphere' ones.

There is a writer Dr Andrew Walker, who came from a pentecostal upbringing, who has settled into the Russian Orthodox church [i](very slow songs)[/i]. He believes he has shaken off his personal 'religious' traditions, to be absolutely real with God.
Quote:
'..is their more light on all this that I may be unaware of?

I believe so, but I hestitate to try to explain it. ;-) However, I would say there is great blessedness in being given the freedom by the elders, with them, to pray and worship as the Holy Spirit sparks between one and another and sometimes, a gathering can be lit up amazingly - like the fire really has fallen - by the right hymn or chorus, which the Holy Spirit has asked for.

 2005/8/10 16:02
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

What theology do I read into this? The meeting will be music-led; the worship will be in the hands of the specialists. The ministry of the saints themselves will have to find its spaces in between the music. The people most equipped to provide this kind of musical lead will be those who have learned their music skills rather than a sensitivity to the moving of the Spirit in the meeting. The meeting passes into the hands of those who are expert at creating atmosphere.



It is interesting you mention this stuff about the location of the pulpit and what not. I took an entire class at Bible college called "The Ministry of Worship" in which we spent a good deal of time in this abbreviated summer time class talking about things such as the position of the pulpit, sacraments, etc. There is indeed, a great theology behind much of the madness.

Of course, some of it is just accidental, and when some churches have been built in times past, people just placed things in certain locations because that's how they always saw it done. For example, had I built a church prior to taking this class, I would have likely put the pulpit in the center of the stage, just because that's how I had always seen it done, not because I had a theology behind it.

At my last church, we met in a rather small building. We experimented with several different layout styles, until we came to what was perhaps the most interesting I had ever seen: We had the praise team and altar and pulpit area in the corner of the room, and stationed the chairs on a slant as you entered the front so they were facing towards the left corner of the room, in a slight elipitical pattern. Our screen which we used for announcements and music lyrics was actually on the front wall, and not directly behind the band. We didn't have a formal puplpit lecturn, my pastor simply took one of the music stands from the band after they were done, and usually placed it to the side instead of in front of him.

Frankly, meeting in such cramped quaters as we had, we simply were going for what was the most practical. We were going for what would accomodate the most bodies, and the best way we could hide the various wiring for the sound system and computer that we used for power point. But it was interesting to see that once my pastor removed the wooden altars from the general preaching area, and some people though him moving them out of the way and putting them in our storage room was nothing short of blasphemey (they saw theology behind such)... yet he was simply doing it because we were in such cramped quarters, and when he preached he liked to be able to move around a little and not trip. For that matter, from a practical point of view, nobody ever really used the altars as it is. Our layout was simply designed for what was the most functional.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/8/10 16:18Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: traditions...from functionality into formality.

This thread is very interesting.

Quote:
...when some churches have been built in times past, people just placed things in certain locations because that's how they always saw it done....Our layout was simply designed for what was the most functional.



I have a friend whose family is Greek Orthodox. He told me that during the Eucharist or Divine Liturgy, a priest may ceremoniously wave a white handkerchief softly over the bread and wine. I asked him if there was some spiritual property to this act. He told me not really...in former times, that was the only way they could keep the flies off the bread.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/8/10 17:42Profile









 Re: traditions...from formality into functionality.

Quote:
a priest may ceremoniously wave a white handkerchief softly over the bread and wine. I asked him if there was some spiritual property to this act. He told me not really...in former times, that was the only way they could keep the flies off the bread.

It is remarkable there is a meaningful explanation for this slight difference in practice!

Once the move is made into a home setting, is it a little thing to decide who should bake the bread, how simple it should be or whether it should come from a shop?

Does it need to be in the same room as the worshippers at the beginning of the 'service' or, can it wait in the kitchen to save the space of a table?

Does this lead to yet another question, of whether breaking bread [i]should[/i] be a meal together, or a time of open worship?

I've never 'broken bread' as part of a meal with fellow-believers. Does anyone do this these days?

 2005/8/11 14:29





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