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 Is the Reformation Over?

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Evangelical Protestants and Roman Catholics _ the nation's two largest religious blocs _ have a relationship that's been marked in the past by hostility and tension.
But now, almost 500 years after Martin Luther, one of the top U.S. evangelical thinkers has co-authored a book that finds an increasingly warm relationship between Catholics and evangelicals.

"Is the Reformation Over? An Evangelical Assessment of Contemporary Roman Catholicism" (Baker) by Mark A. Noll and Carolyn Nystrom argues that not only on contemporary political issues such as abortion but also on matters of spirituality Catholics and the Protestant conservatives have ever more in common.

Summarizing the situation, Noll _ a historian at Wheaton College in Illinois _ said in an interview that he sees "quite serious differences, but not differences of life and death as they were regarded for at least four centuries."


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/7/29 20:58Profile









 Re: Is the Reformation Over?

I've been avoiding this one for two days now, but being compelled, I guess, I'll try to be brave and post how I feel and see.


God can and does use anything. IF it is used as an opportunity for dialogue, that leads to the propagation of the True Gospel Only.

If this opens the doors of communication, between Christians and Catholics, well then, with God's help, we should use it for that purpose alone.

But, prophetically speaking, the other side of this two-sided coin is, can we not see the forming of the one world religion here ?

I don't believe the RCC alone, is Babylon, as some of our Classic favorite Authors did, but I do believe this merger of all denominations is the 'spiritual aspect or side' of Mystery Babylon, of Rev. 17. May sound far-fetched, but that is where the belief in a global religion came from, is Rev. 17.

Most people don't call the "one world religion" "Babylon" ... but Scripturally, they are synonymous ... a One in the Same entity, spiritually. (besides being a city & kingdom, but certainly does not fit "Iraq", especially when looking at Rev. 18 -- for just one chpt..)

I don't believe folks have a grip on just how far into these things we already are ... and even that fact that the 'unawareness' of the people, was prophesied in the end-time prophetic verses. The Days will catch most unawares.

There is 'no way' that "the most" could "be deceived", unless it comes in as a "spiritual" movement, with 'spiritual' leaders, whether they be Religious leaders or Political leaders.

The 'spiritual' can only be deceived by the 'spiritual'.

Ah, Unity & Peace and a chance for evangelism, is the cry, but what they don't understand, is that there is a great difference now-a-days, between the meaning of 'Evangelism' and 'Evangelization'. The latter is now political in nature with a disjointed 'gospel'.

Even now, people around the globe are being jailed for just 'speaking' against a Global governance, the UN & it's religion, under the clause of 'Intolerance & Hate Speech'.

Emails, Forums and Blogs are being monitored for this type speech at present.
Lists of "dissenters against world unity" are already in place.
Global surveillance has been in place for quite some time now. A minimum of 10 yr.s already.
Need documentation ?

What I believe is that this Pope was specially chosen to be the [u]"foundation layer"[/u] for the Religious Merger, because he's highly intelligent and has changed his tune drastically from just a few years ago, when he wrote Dominus Ieus, by the commission of PJ II ... which stated that only the RCC held the Truth and thus Salvation.
That 'statement of faith' by Ratzinger, raised a big stir amongst Protestants ... [i]At the time.[/i]
It was no different then all of their other writings , like Vatican II, their Catechisms, etc ... that state the RCC is the only holder of The Truth & Salvation. He also flip-flopped on the abortion issue in an ill-advised attempt to help US Presidential candidate John F. Kerry. (N.Y.T.- 4.17.05)

Just before JP II became unable to speak, he said we should all come under the UN.

I believe the UN is the Beast (7 heads/10 horns), that the Whore (Babylon) rides ... and that merger is underway or actually complete and has just been shelved for now, as we speak.
The religious are riding the Political system, right to their own demise, by the same beast who's using her. The Vatican has it's own seat at the UN. What other religious head does ?
Listen to the BBC worldservice on most NPR radio stations to get the feel of all of this.

No where in Scripture can one justify a merger of the Church with the Political system of the world. Yet that is where we are presently at. That is why the only thread where I lost my 'whatever', was on the one about, those who are most responsible Internationally/Politically to usher in this false 'church' of the world. I've never posted so many Links before.

If anyone is Doctrinally off or a compromiser on true truth, they are against Truth ... and if against Biblical Truth ... then they are against 'Truth' Period and will "flip-flop" with their 'stands' or words (lie) or whatever it takes, whether it's a Prez or Pope, if they are known Globalists. (Type Globalism or Globalists into google someday).
To a globalist, Truth does not matter, only the making/forming of a one world order (their words, not mine) & finish the 'religious initiative' they've already started. "Thinking they do God a service", and then to rid the world of dissenters of this Global Peace/Unity/Love, etc..
Again - Out of the horses (their own) mouth - documentation available on all of the above, from their own writings.

How did we suppose that they would bring in a one world religion and 'governance' without bringing it in, by what we are seeing right now ? Or do we think the Last days are still YEARS AWAY ?
One more major world "crisis", that could happen at any time, and the stage has already been set years ago, for the full System to display itself. As an interview on the BBC had, around the time of the G-8 meeting, basically said ... 'We need to initiate the International Bio-chip soon, for things to work efficently.' (You won't be able to buy or sell or work or get medical care or travel without it.)
Many have already taken the chip for one wild reason or another.
I even saw a t.v. commercial years ago, of a guy using the chip in a grocery store, and "how convienent it was", it conveyed.

It doesn't say that Antichrist has to be revealed first and then the delusion ... but that there has to be a religious/political stage already set up, for there to be a deception in the first place.
How else could so many be deceived by him/it.

It Starts with Apostasy, a falling away from Truth and compromise with the world, which is the Fertile ground for all that comes afterward.

When Christians were under the Roman Emperors, at one point, they were only required to throw a pinch of salt over their shoulder. It was a sign of loyalty to the Emperor, which the Romans basically saw as a god. Some 'christians' said, "Well, we could just throw the salt, but not think in our 'minds' that it's for that reason", so they compromised,, while the Christians who stood strong and wouldn't,, were killed.

At this point, we're only 'deciding' whether to throw just that little pinch of salt or not ... later it will be more obvious where all of this is leading, but sometime soon, we all must draw our line in the sand, about compromise or this compromising of true truth of a slippery slope that we're sliding down already.

Yes, Jesus said through John, "God IS Love" ,,, but Jesus also said, "I AM The Way, 'The Truth' and The Life." Love without God's Truth is not God's Love, and vice versa.

"Many will come in my name, saying I am Christ" ... that can be interpreted 2 ways.
The worse of it, is that He was also saying, there will be those who Do say, "jesus is christ" ... just as the new agers do. (One of many christ's in their book.)
What does the Vicar of Christ or Holy Father mean, for one ? (I was raised Catholic too.)

I guess the only answer is, "Be wise as serpents & harmless as Doves" and Know the Times you're living in .... and as Jesus said, "Watch & pray that you not be deceived." The word "deception" in the Bible is a Strong word, and as Nee had said & others, "don't ever say or think, that you cannot be deceived." Just pray earnestly and dependently on God that you never will be.

And, "Put not your trust in Princes" and don't follow or put your whole trust in ANY man, as there is no guarentee that that man will not fall sometime in the future, as Jesus said, "most" shall fall.
Just follow Christ & devour His Word, with all the loyalty & sincerety one has.

 2005/7/30 9:43









 Re: 'The Vatican has a seat on the UN'.... She does?

Annie, much food for thought. Thank you for laying this out as you see it.

Quote:
There is 'no way' that "the most" could "be deceived", unless it comes in as a "spiritual" movement, with 'spiritual' leaders, whether they be Religious leaders or Political leaders.

The 'spiritual' can only be deceived by the 'spiritual'.

This makes sense and is another outworking of governments making churches and charities dependent on themselves for funding. While being so beguiled, churches are not cultivating support for themselves within their local communities, with whom to survive in a crisis.

Quote:
..a great difference now-a-days, between the meaning of 'Evangelism' and 'Evangelization'. The latter is now political in nature with a disjointed 'gospel'.

Even now, people around the globe are being jailed for just 'speaking' against a Global governance, the UN & it's religion, under the clause of 'Intolerance & Hate Speech'...

...I believe the UN is the Beast (7 heads/10 horns), that the Whore (Babylon) rides ... and that merger is underway or actually complete and has just been shelved for now, as we speak.
The religious are riding the Political system, right to their own demise, by the same beast who's using her. The Vatican has it's own seat at the UN. What other religious head does ?

...To a globalist, Truth does not matter, only the making/forming of a one world order (their words, not mine) & finish the 'religious initiative' they've already started. "Thinking they do God a service", and then to rid the world of dissenters of this Global Peace/Unity/Love, etc..

Basilea Schlink saw these things 30 years ago or more. Perhaps not exactly this, but, she knew it was a-coming and recognised it in the New Age movement.

Quote:
... as Nee had said & others, "don't ever say or think, that you cannot be deceived." Just pray earnestly and dependently on God that you never will be.

As ever, one needs to be a tree planted by THE RIVER of Life.

 2005/7/30 12:19





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