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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Survey: 1,200 MegaChurches in US

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todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Quote:
Thanks Todd. I appreciate your helpful post.



Your welcome. Glad it was helpful to you.

Quote:
Warren mentioned his church is unique among mega-churches in that it's growth is not through transfer.

Does this mean saddleback is atypical for a mega-church?



Now I think you need to be careful here. Warren did say Saddleback is unique, but he didn't clearly state that it was unique "among mega-churches." In context I can see why you would infer that, but I'm not absolutely sure he meant that.

He also did not clearly say that they are unique becuase "it's growth is not through transfer." He said it's unique and then gives some stats as to what makes it unique. Again, I think I can see why you'd infer that in the context, but in his actual statement about why it's unique, he does not clearly state it as you put it. Perhaps many mega-chruches have most of their growth through transfer, just not as high of a percentage.

Would those statistics be unique among churches in general? I would think so, but I am not sure.

You offer an intersting follow-up question.

Quote:
Do pastors have mega-envy?



I would hope not, but this would not be shocking either. I can understand being interested in thier methods of growth. For example, it seems Rick Warren's church really has had legitimate growth. So I can see why pastors would be interested in studying and perhaps incorporating his methods into their churchs.

Maybe we need to be open to distinguish between envy and stirring for souls. When you look at figures like Warren's, I could definately understand a pastor getting stirred about getting more souls saved.

But it seems clear that to be envious is not healthy. Hopefully pastors who might be struggling with mega-envy, which I could imagine, will get help and get over it.

But I don't know if we would be able to distinguish between a pastor being envious or just being stirred and excited about souls which might result in trying some different things and maybe making some adjustments in mentality and methodology.

 2005/7/29 15:14Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I can understand being interested in thier methods of growth. For example, it seems Rick Warren's church really has had legitimate growth. So I can see why pastors would be interested in studying and perhaps incorporating his methods into their churchs.



I see your point. I need to be careful not to project my limited experiences onto every church!

So there are several things for me to consider...

1) It may be an oversimplified assumption that skillful marketing is the force behind the mega-church.

2) Mega-churches may be more successful at evangelism then they are given credit for.

3) The difference between wanting to see numbers added daily to the church and wanting to see church-growth may be in the eye of the beholder.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/7/29 15:43Profile
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Exactly. Very well said. These considerations you bring up are great. I have come to consider similar ideas lately, especially since I read the "Myths of the Modern Mega-Church" transcript.

Quote:
1) It may be an oversimplified assumption that skillful marketing is the force behind the mega-church.



Yes, I definately agree. Especially behind "all" mega-churches, which would be even more of an overgeneralization.

Quote:
3) The difference between wanting to see numbers added daily to the church and wanting to see church-growth may be in the eye of the beholder.



I am convinced by this that you understood what I was trying to get at as far as pastors are concerned. Well stated.

I have been helped by how you phrased your considerations. Thanks. Excellent.

 2005/7/29 16:29Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

I wonder how many have been to any of these "mega-churches"? I have been numerous times in the past and will continue to go in the future, because I believe many of these pastors need to be openly and publicly rebuked in front of the entire congregation for mis-handling the Gospel and preaching a false Jesus and a false plan of salvation.

I understand that there are exception to the rule, but the majority of these mega-churches experience their growth by preaching a sugary sweet, watered down easy believism and thus a false gospel and a false Jesus. They preach Jesus wants you to be happy, happy, happy, not Jesus wants you to be Holy, Holy, Holy.

One personal example is of a mega-church I attended this past Easter. They had over 20,000 “seekers” attend there 10 services. They never spoke of the cross, never spoke of the resurrection, never spoke of repentance and only mentioned Jesus a few brief times, the message was about Peter being a fisherman. At the end of the service they had people sign a paper that was provided in the bulletin that stated to the affect “I believe Jesus is the son of God and has already forgiven me for all my past sins and all sins I will commit in the future” Upon signing this paper and tossing it into a wading pool set up on the stage as a symbol of throwing away your sin and casting them upon Jesus voila “your saved, going to heaven and nothing you do or say in the future can ever change that” “You are already forgiven for every sin you will ever commit.” This church proudly claims that it patterns itself after Saddleback and purchases much of their material from them. They follow the Saddleback pattern to a tee.

The fastest way to grow your numbers is to not preach hell, judgment, sin, wrath, holiness, cross bearing, the blood of Christ, repentance, self denial, death to self and flesh, righteousness - just preach love, grace, mercy, forgiveness, peace and happiness mixed in with some pop psychology and Dale Carnegie type motivation and I guaranty your numbers will grow and your converts will become twice the children of hell.

I think if most people would head down to their local mega-church and see what’s actually going on, they would be truly shocked!!! I believe many more people would agree with me that most of these pastors need to be openly and publicly rebuked in front of the entire congregation for mis-handling the Gospel and preaching a false Jesus and a false plan of salvation. Most of these pastors are demons disguised as angles of light. They need to be stared down, called out and shut down!!!

What would Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, John Wesley, George Fox, Charles Finney etc. do if they walked into one of these churches this Sunday?


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/7/29 18:00Profile





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