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coops
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Joined: 2004/6/28
Posts: 141


 The Bait of Satan - Offence

Has anybody read the book "The Bait of Satan" by John Bevere?

It really helped me so much through a tough time recently and I know many people here would benifit from it.

Im going to go though it again, and Im thinking of posting what I get out of it up here...

Has anyone read it already? Is anyone interested?


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Coops

 2005/7/27 8:22Profile
_Disciple_
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Joined: 2004/10/29
Posts: 335
The Netherlands

 Re: The Bait of Satan

Quote:
Is anyone interested?



yea, please share your thoughts on this, maybe i can find it at the bookstore nearby!


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William

 2005/7/27 10:31Profile
todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re: The Bait of Satan

Yes, coops, I'm interested in hearing about what you learned. I have this book and have heard great things about it, but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet myself.

 2005/7/27 11:39Profile
coops
Member



Joined: 2004/6/28
Posts: 141


 Re: Me? Offended?!

Well sorry I didnt post anything for the past few days, I had exams so didn't have time. (Exams went pretty good!) Anyway, I have started to re-read the book because it was so good, and did chapter one this morning. I just wanted to share some things I got out of it for anyone who was interested...

[b] Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him." And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” [/b] (Luke 17:3-5)

The first thing that hit me was: after all the miracles, the healings, the water into wine, the storm etc: the thing that prompts them to ask for more faith is their need to not hold onto offense!

Also I saw that offense is a very real and valid thing to be addressing in my life, and how much we need to avoid offedning people (where possible). So it's not really a question of a Christian being offended, it's really a question of "What is your response?" Does that make sense?

Actually I might as well go deeper into the response thing:
[b]"For it is not an enemy who reproaches me; Then I could bear it. Nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me; Then I could hide from him. But it was you, a man my equal, My companion and my acquaintance. We took sweet counsel together, And walked to the house of God in the throng. "[/b]
I know for myself (especially lately) that the most hurt comes when someone close to you offends you. Does it ring a bell for anyone else?

The second thing that was really interesting was this: It says that the greek work for "offend" used in the above passage ([i]"skandalon"[/i]), originally refered to the part of a trap to which you attach your bait. So i guess it's that sensitive part on a mouse trap etc... and I guess that means that offence is much like a trap (or part of it anyway). And thats why Paul said to Timothy: [b]"And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."[/b] (2 Tim 2:24-26)

Would it be safe to say that when someone is offended, they are ensared into the devil's will (that offence and dis-unity would occur)?

The next thing that stood out to me cut deeply. That is, often offence is cloaked with pride. Its probably because the enemy doesn't want your true condition to be shown (or else it will be dealt with faster). That was definately close to home for me. Ive been offended many times and have has alot of people come up to me "Are you ok?", "I'd be so annoyed", "They had no right", etc and I'd say "No, Im not offended", knowing it was wrong.

The problem for me (and the book also pointed it out) was that pride made me feel like a victim. It also slowed down forgiveness because I felt so wronged. I tried to justify myself, and was really actually decieved.

Now Bevere pointed something out here that I never noticed, even though it started me in the face: To be free, we have to "buy God's gold" (Rev 3:18)

He pointed out that gold was pure and soft, like our hearts should be. But that gold can become hard when an another substance enters the mixture. It becomes more of an alloy... and isn't pure. He likened one of these metals that could enter, to deception about our offence.

So how do we break free from the deception? "buy God's gold" (Rev 3:18) I guess the meaning here was that God's gold is pure and refined. But then again, the refining could hurt quite a bit:

Isiah 48:10 [b]"Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction."[/b]

and

1 Peter 1:6-7 [b]"In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,"[/b]

So if it takes that refining process: So be it. Anything to rid ourselves of deception. I guess the process would humble you and strip away our pride, then your offence would be revealed.

"Buy God's gold...and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see." (Rev 3:18) See what? Our heart's true condition: Alloyed and annoyed!

Only then can we "be zealous and repent", which is his next command in Rev 3:19: [b]"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. [/b] [refine?] [b]Therefore be zealous and repent."

And thats what I got out of chapter one. What do you think?


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Coops

 2005/7/29 18:54Profile
coops
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Joined: 2004/6/28
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 Re:

is anybody interested in me posting more?


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Coops

 2005/7/30 8:48Profile
todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

coops,

I enjoyed your post. But if I'm the only one whose interested it might not be worth it for you to continue. Thanks for sharing what you've learned so far.

 2005/7/30 10:51Profile
_Disciple_
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Joined: 2004/10/29
Posts: 335
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 Re:

Quote:

coops wrote:
is anybody interested in me posting more?



yea bro please :-)

thanks for sharing and i agree with Todd! post some more, i'm looking forward to that!

be blessed!

William


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William

 2005/7/30 15:43Profile
coops
Member



Joined: 2004/6/28
Posts: 141


 Re: Massive Offence!

This morning I read chapter 2, heres what I got...

[b]"And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."[/b] Mt 24:10-13

...Many times we might reach out with the best intentions and with love to someone, and they respond in a way that hurts and offends us, so eventually we just give up (is this familiar to anyone?)...

[b]"For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart."[/b] Gal 6:8-9

...but we are called to HAVE FAITH! Faith that when love is returned as offence, it doesn't mean failure, but that it's not the right season. So do we stop? No... because you cant sow and reap in the same season! :-)

Faith allows us to take this seriously:
[b]"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?"[/b] Mat 5:44-47

Does anyone here feel like this is or has been them?

I know for myself, I have pulled out of things because it hurt too much. I tried to reach out in love but I just got attacked. The problem was, the other person was offended too (by miscommunication). So I got to this problem:

[b]"A brother offended is harder to win than a strong city, And contentions are like the bars of a castle."[/b] Prov 18:19

I had walls too, to keep me from getting hurt. All the focus was on what was inside those walls (me), and how to not injure that. They were like strongholds:

[b]"For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ"[/b] 2 Cor 10:4-5

For myself, I had scripture to back everything I said. Theologically I was right. I even checked it with many here on the forum, and didnt get one person tell me otherwise. But what I didn't latch on to was this: without love, it is a destructive and puffed up legalism. (1 Cor 8:1-3).

I reached out in love to this person, but got harsh attacks back. I then put up walls to avoid hurt, and pulled out the word to justify myself. My love stayed for a while, but eventually offence ruled. As a result, I ended up justifying myself, rather than repenting from my offence and waxing love. Am I alone?

I was, and I think many in Christian communities are: [b]"always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth."[/b] 2 Tim 3:7

Its scary to see how [b]"many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another"[/b]. Betrayal happens when one believer seeks his own protection, at the expense of another. So it goes something like this: offence leads to betrayal which leads to hate (a lack of love).

Now, knowing the path offence leads me down, it is scary: [b]"Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him."[/b] 1 John 3:15

So would it be safe to say, offence is a trap that leads you down a path of sin? It's fatal!

Eternal life is to follow Christ:
[b]"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,"[/b] Matt 5:44

[b]"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself."[/b] Philippians 2:3

[b]"For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: “ Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”; who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously"[/b] 1 Peter 2:21-23

And thats what I got today...


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Coops

 2005/8/1 23:17Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: The Bait of Satan

It's an excellant book and should be required reading for all bible students and anyone in church leadership including all pastors. I highly recommend it. I believe John Bever has some mp3 sermons on this site also.


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D.Miller

 2005/8/2 4:35Profile
coops
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Joined: 2004/6/28
Posts: 141


 Re: John Bevere sermons

Oh wow he is here!
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=124]John Bevere sermons[/url]

yeah I considered him to be a prophet to our day, very uncomprimising and insightful. read a book once that said any preacher who does not pray at least two hours a day isn't worth a dime (i think it was ravenhill?) so he prayed at least 2 ever since... and it shows in his teaching...

ill try and write down some more thoughts from the next chapter tomorrow


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Coops

 2005/8/2 5:03Profile





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