SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Authentic Biblical Christianity.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : General Topics : Craving clarity

Print Thread (PDF)

PosterThread
TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Craving clarity

Craving clarity, we attempt to eliminate the risk of trusting God.

When I read this in [i]Ruthless Trust[/i] by Brennan Manning, I was literally blown away. I had to read, read, & re-read this section of the book only to grasp the notion that I do not trust God as I should. As He desires I should.

Clarity elimates trust. Why would we need to trust God if all things are so clearly written? I pray that the God of Jesus will not grant me the degree of clarity that I once desired so that I may "live in His perfect will".

To hunger for clarity more than dependence, is not in His perfect will for us.

Thoughts?


_________________
Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/25 23:09Profile
roman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/18
Posts: 41


 Re: Craving clarity

First, I dont fully understand what you meant by "Clarity eliminates trust." Can you expound this?

Second, on the surface of it, I believe otherwise. I believe clarity & trust go together. The reason you trust something or someone is because it or he/she is so clear to you (what it is, who he is; capabilities of the 'what' & the 'who').

So, the clearer who Jesus is to us, the more we will trust Him. But then again, faith is believing something you have not seen. Meaning, things may not be so clear to us but we will still trust & have faith in Him because He is trustworthy, faithful, etc.

Third, we can not fully know Him. There will always be, I believe, instances where we would have some doubts (to a certain degree) or encounter some unclear issues BUT this should not be a hindrance for us to fully trust Him. We can only know Him much to the degree He revealed Himself in His word and to us personally as we walk with Him.

Just sharing my thoughts.

Roman

 2005/7/26 1:39Profile
arbustum
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 96
Sydney Australia

 Re: Craving clarity

hi, i was just reading a passage in acts that strangely seemed to relate, strangely because i was praying for some sense of relevance and her it is. ok, this is the amplified version:

"And now, you see, i am going to jerusalem, bound by the [Holy] Spirit and obligated and compelled by the [convictions of my own] spirit, not knowing what will befall me there -
Except that the Holy Spirit clearly and emphatically affirms to me in city after city that imprisonment and suffering await me.
But none of these things move me; neither do i esteem my life dear to myself, if only i may finish my course with joy and the ministry which i have obtained from [which was entrusted to me by] the Lord Jesus, faithfully to attest to the good news (Gospel) of God's grace (His unmerited favour, spiritual blessing and mercy).

Acts 20:22-24

there are so many things in that passage that show the understanding this man has! we arent eliminating a trust in God but our primary goal mustn't be to seek clarity either, my interpretation of what you refer to is when someone seeks after clarity of circumstances (lol is that why you've asked such a general question?)and in doing so, that person forgets God and goes about seeking their own understanding, yeah? i would appreciate it if you did elaborate like roman suggested, because such general questions are kind of like a blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room, with many many corners and extensions oh, and there is no black cat after all so...

just making this post ever so much longer, i'm almost done, God gives clarity to those that ask for it. ie. knowledge and wisdom, to refer back to that passage paul was writing, he didnt give in to flesly desires that would have held him back but instead decided to face what God had called him to regardless of his fleshly desires, but more to the point, The spirit clarified for him what he was entering because of his awareness of the spirit which enlightens us. did you get that? God will enlighten us if we'll just listen and follow what he has to say instead of just looking for what suits us best as humans which is the most natural thing for a human to do because we live in a fallen world... clarity comes from God, without it is darkness, confusion and nonsence, such is the way satan likes to play with us, he loves to pull the wool over our eyes and so we mustn't forget that clarity is a gift, so too, is free will, now the biggest act of love you can show to God is by obeying his commands,

This is speaking to me so much, if its hitting you hard just know that im not trying to sound flawless, i stuff up too and this is all a new revelation to me as well. I'm just saying whats in my spirit.

But the way Paul just carried out God's will like that just touched me eh! his flesh was so opposed because it knew it'd be suffering soon enough if he set foot in jerusalem. Later it tells you that the other disciples that met up with him urged him EVERY DAY not to go and they cried for him, holding him in their arms, because they each knew that it would be the last time they would see paul alive. But he disciplined it and his spirit was willing enough to overpower the pull of the flesh where we could have so easily succumbed, it just awes me eh!

clarity is a gift. from God. our challenge is to not abuse the privelage of it. clarity is earnt through obedience, and its a hard lesson that im learning the hard way at the moment. love you brothers and sisters, Go strong!

-arbustum


_________________
holly

 2005/7/26 2:39Profile
TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re:

See, everyone is afraid to believe in doubt.

I have to state this very clearly: [b]God does not view unwavering faith as we do.[/b] When we understand this, we can live transparently with our broken nature.

We know who Jesus is, what He has done, what He does today. Yes you are correct, He is trustworthy, He is faithful, but you both have misinterpreted the point I was trying to put forth.

I said "Craving clarity". I have seeked clarity in the past. But I no longer pray for clarity. I do not mean clarity in the ways of Abba. I do not mean clarity in the path of light. We all NEED to know, clearly what His message to us is. I meant that we seek clarity with our lives. We want to know the next chapter in our lives. When we get into a jam, we pray for clarity when we need to pray for trust, that the one you put your "trust" in will deliver you. Bruised & battered, but delivered nonetheless a stronger soldier.

So do not think that I believe in the things I believe blindly. I believe above all things, ALL things, we need to TRUST & stop trying to figure everything thing out through doctrines & man made belief systems. Trust in His truth, trust in His love, trust in His forgiveness, Trust in His Grace.

In His Name


_________________
Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/26 9:44Profile
TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re:

Hey Arby =)

Your words were well taken. But a prime example of the trust that can render in times of peril is Jonathan.

Jonathan said to his young armor-bearer, "Come, let's go over to the outpost of those uncircumcised fellows. Perhaps the LORD will act in our behalf. Nothing can hinder the LORD from saving, whether by many or by few."

Did Jonathan have clarity here. PERHAPS! he exclaims. PERHAPS! the Lord will act in our behalf. I am sure you understand who this Philistines were. Barbaric men. Ragged large men. I mean SCARY! lol .. You can only imagine.

So perhaps the Lord will act in our behalf, if it be in His Sovereign will.

This is what I meant. In the ways of life. He is VERY clear on who He is. Yet we will never understand His vastness.

Let's seek His face forever


_________________
Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/26 9:55Profile
earnestlycontend
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 69
Flinstone, GA

 Re: Craving clarity

I think you're right in a lot of ways, Tilted Halo.

Sometimes we want a clear path, direction, etc. and God sometimes wants us to trust him even when we can't see past the storm clouds.

Also, I think God makes the going hard and confusing to keep us praying and seeking him, though. Praying for clarity and direction is pleasing to God too.


_________________
Kendal Shipley

 2005/7/26 11:16Profile
earnestlycontend
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 69
Flinstone, GA

 Re:

By the way TH, where do you go to church up there?


_________________
Kendal Shipley

 2005/7/26 11:16Profile
TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re:

I attend Brooklyn Tabernacle. You?


_________________
Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/26 11:35Profile
earnestlycontend
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 69
Flinstone, GA

 Re:

I enjoy the CDs your choir puts out. New York is a super place. When I was there, I did get to go to Times Square Church, but not Brooklyn Tabernacle. How big is your church? Do you do much outreach there in Brooklyn?


You asked where I go to church:

I live in north Georgia - I attend Cooper Heights Church of God.


_________________
Kendal Shipley

 2005/7/26 19:02Profile
TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re:

Ah, next time you are in the New York City area, make it an appointment to visit the Brooklyn Tabernacle. I couldn't begin to explain to you the presence of God that engulfs that building.

Simply Amazing.

"We", do a lot of outreaches. I am involved in the Transitions Ministry. It is geared towards young adults and the facilitators are working on major things. Well ... sorta minor things lol ... small groups which is key ... So many things happening there man. God has blessed me and called me where He wanted to me grow. Amazing young men & women. It is a fairly large congregation ... I believe the member roster is @ 10,000. We are pastored by Jim Cymbala which I couldn't begin to speak on. His books are a blessing as well.

Since you are on here! MAN! You HAVE to check Cymbalas sermon titled "My House Shall be Called the House of Prayer" !! I think I'm gonna check it out again now lol

In Christ my brother


_________________
Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/26 21:26Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy