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Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Can you lose your salvation?

I know this debate can go on forever, but I was just wonder how the majority on this message board think. So who's right Wesley or Calvin?


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Patrick Ersig

 2005/7/23 14:17Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re: Can you lose your salvation?

I personally believe whatever answers one post here rather you can or not is what their personal religion has taught them, I will say if you can lose your salvation well Jesus you died a horrible death for nothing, the Holy Spirit within me has told me "no" you can't so what do I do fight over the interpreting of the word or listen to what the Holy Spirit within me is telling me, so now we have a power struggle going on is it the word or the Holy Spirit? I will go with both read what I personally understand in the word and listen to the Holy Spirit for conformation.


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Bill

 2005/7/23 14:29Profile









 Re: Can you lose your salvation?

Paul and John list things which they say are incompatible with inheriting the kingdom of God.

[b]1 Corinthians 6: 9 + 10[/b]
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Be not deceived:
neither fornicators,
nor idolaters,
nor adulterers,
nor effeminate,
nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
nor thieves,
nor covetous,
nor drunkards,
nor revilers,
nor extortioners,

shall inherit the kingdom of God.

[b]Revelation 22:14 + 15[/b]
Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without
[are] dogs,
and sorcerers,
and whoremongers,
and murderers,
and idolaters,
and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


My question is this: can a person who is [i]saved[/i] go back to doing these things, or, if they do them, were they [i]ever[/i] saved?

I am coming to believe more and more that unless one lives in 1 John 1:7, it is all too possible to lose the whiteness from one's first robe of righteousness. One has to keep it white.

[b]1 John 1:6 + 7[/b]
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But [b]if we walk in the light, as he is[/b] in the light, we have fellowship one with another, [b]and[/b] the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[b]Matthew 22[/b]
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him,
[b]Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment?[/b]
And he was speechless.
13 [b]Then said the king to the servants,
Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness[/b];
there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few chosen.

 2005/7/23 15:54
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Can you lose your salvation?

That depends on how one got saved. When salvation originates from man then it can be lost. It is not true salvation. These people actually put their trust in man, the word of man, and not in God. A lot of our easy believism,ex: just walk to the front, just ask Jesus into your heart, promotes false "salvations". People merely do what they are told, and go through the right words, motions etc. They may believe that they are saved, even feel very saved, but that doesn't make them so. These kind of people will lose their "salvation",they won't stick with Christ when the going gets rough (see the parable of the seeds and the sower) because it was not real in the first place.
There are multitudes who fit into this catagory as Jesus pointed out: "Many will say, Lord, Lord (implying a personal relationship), but Jesus will say, 'Depart, I NEVER KNEW you.'"
These people trusted in themselves, their works, their OWN salvation.
Christ only KNOWS those in whom he dwells.

When salvation is genuinely a work of the Spirit, done in the timing of God, empowered by him, resulting in Christ's life living and ruling within, enduring through all, no matter what, to the end, then it is eternal salvation.

It can be hard to tell who are saved and who are not. Even Judas fooled the other disciples.

Perhaps a better question to investigate would be: what is a true follower of Christ. Look what Christ was like. His followers will grow more and more like him - having their hearts set on Christ, eternity, love etc etc - instead of the temporal things of this life, selfish ambition, self-driven goals etc. If Christlikeness is not evident, then one must not assume salvation.

I know what it was like to experience both kinds of salvations, and believe me, there is a very big difference. One is maintained by our natural abilities, and the other is empowered by Christ within. "He must increase, I must decrease."
Diane


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Diane

 2005/7/23 19:11Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

WOW! What a great answer to a hard question!


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Patrick Ersig

 2005/7/23 19:46Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: Can you lose your salvation?

I think that the parable of the sower tells all concerning this. When the seed is planted in good soil, it will bear fruit (works), though the sun test it (trial and tribulation). The one who claims Christ, but falls away is the stoney ground convert, who falls away (Hebrews 6) when he is tried. He believed for a while, but this man never departed from iniquity (sin).

It is foolish, in my opinion, to believe that God doesn't know who will be in His kingdom in the end, therefore He knows the number of the elect. We, however, deal with others that we cannot know for sure their fate (Judas fooled the 11). So anyone we give the gospel to, who repents, and calls upon the name of the Lord, will be saved. God knew they would, we cannot foreknow, or presently know, except of our own.

The one who is God's elect will not fall away. Why would God ever save someone, or choose, elect and predetermine them from the foundation of the world, when they will fall away?

Those who fall away, in our eyes, anyway, never received everlasting life.

I think I'm like a 3 or 4 point Calvinist, or a backslidden freewiller, or something.


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Hal Bachman

 2005/7/23 21:59Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re: Can you lose your salvation?


God will never leave you but you can leave him because you have free will. If you go out the door and I call you back you hear me call you back for a while but if you keep walking eventually you get far enough away from me that you can no longer hear me plead with you to come back. This is what happens to people that were at one time saved and yet have come to a place that if you ask them if they believe any longer they will tell you no, they are so far away that they can no longer hear God. They then are in the position to trample the blood of Jesus and crucify him a fresh.

The word says to the Christian that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. The opposite is true if we don't. It is very serious to walk in the flesh and resist God's plead with us to repent. For a Christian to not repent is to be nothing more than a religious and self-righteous Pharisee.

We have a city of refuge to run to. As long as we stay within the border of that city we are safe. That city is Christ and that avenger is Satan.

In Christ,
GaryE


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Gary Eckenroth

 2005/7/24 1:14Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Can you lose your salvation?

Matt 10:39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

Jesus taught in this above verse unless one loses their life for His sake, they cannot enter into eternal life. If one decideds they want to live their life for themselves instead, they cannot enter into eternal life.


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Jimmy H

 2005/7/24 5:45Profile









 Re: backsliding

..as taught in Hebrews 6 refers to the abandonment of faith in Jesus Christ. As I understand God's Word, this is the only true "backsliding" in the bible. Let's say that you are a jew in Paul's day. You have faith in Jesus as the Messiah. Then you begin to listen to legalists who tell you that you need to be circumcised to be saved, or you need to keep the whole law, or any unconfessed sin will sin you to hell, or Jesus Christ is not really the Messiah. Let's say that you abandon your faith in the finished work of Jesus and look for another Messiah or religion to find peace between you and God. To me, this is backslidding. You won't be any longer concerned with the Holy Spirit's witness, or the concious bothering you. You will go off the deep end in sin and there will not be repentance for you any longer.
As believers, we struggle with seperating the old life with the new. What makes it more difficult is that both lives live in the same vessel. The flesh will never be regenerated, never perfected. But that does not give you a license to sin. We walk after the spirit, but not after the flesh. Flesh is still in there trying to get us to appease it. It is very deceptive. I fear it's entrapments much more than being bothered by "evil spirits". My flesh trips me up.
But I as a child of God have favor with God (grace)(free gift-unmerited). God sees my flesh as already crucified with Christ. I need to see my life as God sees it, because my perfection, my righteousness, my holiness, my purity are all imputed to me by Jesus Christ shed blood. They are mine because God said they were. He did not say they belonged to my flesh, but to my spirit, the part of me that is eternal. My flesh is destined for the grave, my spirit for eternal life. The heart of my old man is infinitely wicked and ever shall be. But I rule over it by the Spirit of God Who has taken up residence in me. His residency does not make my flesh perfect or eternal, only my spirit.
So I am eternally secure in Christ's blood because I have placed 100.0000000000000% of my eternal hope not in me and my works, but in Jesus Christ and His finished work that set me free from my works and gave me rest in Him. Glory to God.

I don't have to fret over wicked thoughts that pop into my head, because my salvation does not depend on thinking holy things all the time. My joy does. My peace does. But not my salvation. Thank God, or I would be as lost as can be. But Jesus came to save me from myself. The bible says that He saved me to the uttermost. That is before I was born, or born again, He died for me to save me to the uttermost. Uttermost means that there is nothing else left to be done, but put my faith in what He has already done and let His shed blood save me to the uttermost. Alleluia. I dont' know if that blesses you, but it sure blesses me. Thank You Jesus!

Saved by unmerited favor through faith,

Lahry

 2005/7/24 7:08









 Re:

I havent taken the time to read everything here, so perhaps someone else has already voiced this...

But I believe nothing can seperate us from God if we are [b]truly[/b] saved. Today there are too many false conversions due to easy believism... say a little prayer, hold you under water for 30 seconds... voila, you're saved.

Salvation involves repentance. Salvation involves a real knowledge that we have all sinned against a Holy and Righteous God. Jesus talked of seeds being sown on the ground... some fell on rocks, some among weeds... but notice that the [b]minority[/b] of them fell on good ground, took root, and grew.

So if someone is seemingly walking with God, but falls away... we can [i]probably[/i] assume that they never took root. People put on Oscar Award winning performances at being a Christian... but you dont see them when they are alone. Many never read the Word or pray... this we dont see. We only see the smiles and all that.

So no, if you are truly saved, you will be walking with God forever. Yes, we stumble and fall... and at times we can even distance ourselves from God... but if you are saved, the Holy Spirit which resides in you will bring you back. Sometimes we have to receive a good beating in order to get us back in line... but God will be faithful to get us back in line.

This is how I interpret scripture on this. I'm open to this evolving as I learn more on the topic. This is one of the issues on which I realize there will be grey areas.

Krispy

 2005/7/24 7:17





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