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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 The Origin of Sin & Death

God says in Rom 3:10,11 "there is none righteous, no, not even one. There is none that understand there is none that seeks after God.” Some might say that they are seeking God, but really, they are being sought by Him, and some are only seeking to justify themselves. “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.” 2Tim. 3:5
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." For instance, if you had a cake that was made perfectly but had an extra poisonous ingredient, let’s say, cyanide or arsenic, would that cake still be good? No. So it is for the Human race that some might say that we are intrinsically good. They say that only because we are made in the image of God, but sin is that extra poisonous ingredient. They also say that we are intrinsically bad, they are both wrong, God says that we are intrinsically dead.
You might think that Adam ate a poison fruit that made him a sinner, but that is a very bad explanation of what really is the case. The reason that Adam was cursed to die and made him, along with all of us down through history, sinners is not that he only ate from the tree, but that he broke Gods only law; Gen 2:16,17” And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou may freely eat: 17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Yes, Eve was the first one to eat of it, but Adam was the one accountable to God. Eve was accountable to her husband, Adam. Eve was deceived but Adam must have wanted to eat of it in the first place, otherwise he would have stopped his wife from sinning. They were naked before God and each other, they were not ashamed. When they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they became aware of there nakedness and hid themselves. They knew that they were guilty for braking Gods only law, Gen 2:17.
Adam died spiritually when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and here is how and why he died:
Rom 7:8 “But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. So that it is apart from the knowledge of the law, sin was dead.” Rom 7:9 “For I was alive without the knowledge of the law once: but when the commandment came (when I learned of the commandment), sin revived, and I died.” The law kills you
by using sin as the reason to kill you. Rom 7:11 “For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.” It is a fact that everyone has broken the Law
Death can't bring forth life, so whoever is born from Adam is still spiritually dead. This is why we need to be born again, born of the Spirit. The penalty for sin is death... So everyone who is not born of the Spirit is still in the flesh and dead, or soullish, and you only serve the law of sin and death. There is a way for the ones born of the Sprit to act as they are not saved, which is to be carnally minded. Beware of this, Rom 8:6 for to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

The Basis of Our Faith

To understand how the sacrifice of Jesus satisfies God. We must know what God says. God uses His law of death on the account of sin to implement the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. God says, in Romans 6:23, "for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. and, Deut.21:23, "His body shall not remain overnight on the tree (cross), but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who hangs on a tree is accursed of God."
Jesus was taken off the cross that same day He died so the curse of sin would stay on Him. Lev.17:11, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the alter to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.” Heb. 9:22, “for without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin” When Jesus shed His blood on the cross, God accepted His sacrifice. In verification of Gods' acceptance, He raised Jesus from the dead. The resurrection is the basis of our Faith 1Cr 15:14 and if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
God lets there be a proxy (replacement for you & I) to take the judgment, but the proxy must not be guilty like the one accused or he would be taking the judgment for himself and not for us. So then the only person who could be with out the judgment of sin must not be from the corrupted bloodline of Adam. So that is where the seed of the woman comes in. In the bible, the seed is always from the man, The Hebrew word for seed is zera` {zeh'-rah} it can mean, semen virile (sperm), offspring, descendants, posterity, or children. The man would plant his seed into the woman. God said in Genesis 3:15 “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” Notice the term her seed. Mary was the mother of Jesus but Joseph, Mary's husband, wasn't the father of Jesus. Jesus was not from a seed of a man but conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus is sinless; therefore He can take our place of judgment.
He died on the cross, or we may call it a tree, to take the curse of our sin and the curse of the law. Gal.3:10, "for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." Gal.3:13, Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Remember that no one can ever keep the law. If someone could keep the Law of God there would be no reason for him to take Jesus as his savior.
In the Hebrew mind faith and faithfulness are the same thing. If we are full of faith,
wouldn't you say that we are faithful? Faithfulness is loyalty and obedience. Faith is toward GOD. Hebrews 11:1 says, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." In other words faith is substantial evidence of our hope,
This verse tells us what our hope is in or even Who our hope is; 1Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Savior, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope. Therefore our hope is not a wish but a certainty. So then, we never guess on God. You might ask how do we know God's will? We know it by the WORD of GOD, godly council (in a multitude of council there is much wisdom) and understanding of who GOD is and how HE works. Prov.3:5,6. Lean not to your own understanding, but trust in God with all your heart. Acknowledge HIM in all your ways and HE will direct the path that you take. God will give us wisdom liberally
It is known that Faith with out works is dead but what are works? Works are the fruit of righteousness. In other words, a changed life, a new view on life, and a new motive for everything that you do. But if you don't work for your salvation, then how is faith dead without works? In these new aspects of your life will come actions or works that give a testimony of Christ in you. In other words, you don't work to get a job; you work because you have a job. You don't work to be saved; you work because you are saved. There is also works of the law. Gal.3:10, "for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." No one ever keeps the law. Those who are saved are not under law but grace, but that does not mean that we are to be lawless. We are still under the law of Christ, Gal 6:2 and that would be the spirit of the law. Jesus is the law.

 2005/7/18 20:29Profile
Chosen7Stone
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Joined: 2003/7/21
Posts: 268
FL, USA

 Re: The Origin of Sin & Death

Quote:
Jesus is the law.


I think there's a big difference between Jesus being the Law and Him fulfilling it. We're not under the Law anymore because the Law is for those who break it, and with the Holy Spirit's place in our life and our acceptance of Christ's sacrifice, we're counted as sinless.
The Law was not imperfect, but God's people were. That's why Paul writes in Hebrews 8:8, "Because finding fault with them...." He's referring to the Israelites. When God made the new covenant, He made the law "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13 - NKJV) for those under grace. Jesus isn't the Law, but those who love Him (and obey Him BECAUSE of that love for him - 1 John 2:3-6) don't need the Law because of that love that produces natural obedience.


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Mary M.

 2005/7/18 20:42Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

119:105 “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.”
Pr 6:23 “For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life.”
Jhon 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is the word as the scripture sais, And you could also saiy that Jesus is light.

 2005/7/18 21:02Profile
Chosen7Stone
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Joined: 2003/7/21
Posts: 268
FL, USA

 Re:

Touche. Let me look into this.


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Mary M.

 2005/7/21 17:55Profile
ravin
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Joined: 2004/5/6
Posts: 309
Washington st. u.S. A.

 Re: The Origin of Sin & Death

sin and death= satan
God is love, God is spirit
"If we live in the spirit,let us also walk in the spirit."
Jesus is the word made flesh.
He is the good shepard
He is the way the truth and the life
He is the bread of life.
Paul said he(Christ) is the end of the law. romans 10:4

 2005/7/21 18:37Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

In other words For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness [b]sake[/b], not just the end of the law.

 2005/7/21 21:11Profile
ravin
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Joined: 2004/5/6
Posts: 309
Washington st. u.S. A.

 Re:

Christ is looking for those who are wanting to drink and eat his flesh and his blood. and they are....what to you??? I know what he is to me.

we are to satisfy the hunger and thirsting after righteousness which Christ himself awaken's in our hearts with the living bread.. the word and in holy communion with him.
we now live the life of faith in the son of God.

 2005/7/22 1:31Profile
Chosen7Stone
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Joined: 2003/7/21
Posts: 268
FL, USA

 Re:

I might have to agree with Logic here. James 1:23-25 (NKJV) says, "For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does."
I asked a brother and good friend about it, and he said "Jesus is indeed the Law manifest in the flesh."

We are no longer under the Law, but under grace. But this grace provides an indwelling of the Holy Spirit for us, and He guides and leads us. The Law is written on our hearts...it has become internalized, incontrast to the former external ways. I hope I'm making sense here.
Like I said in my first post on this thread, the Law was not imperfect, but we were. That is why the God made a New Covenant. Jesus fixed that imperfection by becoming a curse for us, in order to fulfill the Law so that we were no longer burdened by it, but freed by it.

Edit: I want to clarify something. I'm not recommending we all celebrate Hanukah and eat kosher foods. I'm not saying all men must be circumcised. What I am saying is that in doing something that we were unable to do for ourselves, Christ counted us as righteous by taking our place. Judgment is to hold something up to a standard...to see if it matches up. Because of Christ, we can be "held up" against the Law, "measured" against it, and be judged righteous. He fulfilled the Law and internalized it for us -- we are no longer under the Law. We are under Christ. And through Him, we obey the Law, because He is the Law, and as Christians we obey Him.


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Mary M.

 2005/7/22 11:45Profile
Yodi
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Joined: 2004/4/23
Posts: 663
Escondido, California

 Re: The Purpose of God's Grace & the Cross

I've been looking for a topic in which I could share with all of you the thoughts that have blessed me recently as I've been reading through Hannah Whitall Smith's book [i]"A Christian's Secret of a Happy Life"[/i]. The strong admonition towards how we would view sin has definitely renewed my mind. In the society we live in today, and not just out in the world, but sadly in Christian circles as well, it's so easy to justify sin. I don't think there's one person who could read this and honestly say, "I've never justified sin!" More often than not, I see Christians abusing grace, and continuing in their sin as if it didn't affect anybody and as if God understood and didn't mind. The standard has to be raised if we truly, as Christians, are going to prove what that good and acceptable will of God is to the body of Christ and to the unsaved world. May we all be encouraged!

[b]Complete Deliverance From Sin[/b]
... When Paul was telling the Ephesian Church the wondrous truth that [u]Christ had so loved them[/u] as to give Himself for them, he went on to declare that [u]His purpose in doing so was[/u] "that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Ephesians 5:26, 27).

When Paul was seeking to instruct Titus, his own son after the common faith, concerning [u]the grace of God[/u], he declared that [u]the object of that grace[/u] was to teach us "that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world" (Titus 2:12). He adds, as the reason for this, that Christ "gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all inquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (Titus 2:14)...

[b]Sin Contrary to God[/b]
Romans 8:3-4 tells us "what [u]the law[/u] could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [u]That righteousness of the law[/u] might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Can we suppose that the holy God who hates sin in the sinner is willing to tolerate it in the Christian? Can we really believe that He has even arranged the plan of salvation in such a way as to make it impossible for those who are saved from the guilt of sin to find deliverance from its power?

... It would be indeed strange to believe that sin, so hateful to God, caused death, and yet believe that sin should be permitted to continue. It would be very strange that what was previously the object of destroying vengeance should now become the object of toleration. Now that [u]the penalty[/u] is removed, do you think it is possible that the unchangeable God has given up His aversion to sin so that ruined and redeemed man may now indulge, under the new arrangement, in that which under the old destroyed him?

... How can we believe that God would be allied with a persistent sinner? How will we, recover from such a catastrophe, continue that which first involved us in it? [u]The cross of Christ[/u], by the same mighty and decisive stroke with which it took the curse of sin away from us, also surely takes away the power and the love of sin...

A Quaker clergyman of the seventeenth century says: "There is nothing so contrary to God as sin, and God will not tolerate sin ruling man, His masterpiece. When we consider how God's mighty power destroys that which is contrary to HIm, who can believe that the devil must always stand and prevail? I believe it is inconsistent with true faith for people to be Christians and yet to believe that Christ, the eternal Son of God, to whom all power in heaven and earth is given, will tolerate sin and the devil having dominion.

[b]READ MORE[/b] in Hannah Whitall Smith's book, [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0883681323/qid=1122050404/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_ur_2_1/102-2908931-4440937]A Christian's Secret of a Happy Life[/url].


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Yolanda Fields

 2005/7/22 12:43Profile
ellie
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Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189
UK

 Re: I have sent PM to you...


I have written to you on a Private Message..


In Gods Love

ellie

 2005/7/23 13:21Profile





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