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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Where on earth do carnal minded people get us such rediculous arguments?


Why do carnally minded people judge people who disagree with them as being 'carnally minded'?

and 'why do carnally minded people who accuse people for being carnally minded because they have judged others to be carnally minded get such ridiculous questions? ;-)

and why...

“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?”
(1Cor. 3:1-4, KJVS)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/7/20 5:29Profile
wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re: the Lord's Sabbath

The LORD blessed only the seventh day of the week (Saturday). He set it apart from the other six days as a day of rest from labor. The only person that has the authority to change one of the Ten Commandments, written on tables of stone as a sign of their immutability, is the writer himself, the LORD. No such command from the Father, His Son, or the Apostles, exists in the Old or New Testament to either change the Sabbath to Sunday (the first day of the week) or to abolish the Sabbath altogether.

Galatians 4:10:

Here Paul was writing to the Galatians who had been heathen worshipers of pagan deities before their conversion to Yeshua. He says in verse 8," . . .when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods." In other words they were idolaters who neither served God nor walked in His laws. They knew nothing of His commandments and laws except what they had heard from Israelites living in their city. Verse 9 states that after they were converted they began to be known of the God of Israel, which prompted Paul's question,"Why do you want to return to the way you were before you were converted? Why do you continue to observe days, months, times, and years that were ordained by pagans? Why do you wish to be slaves to the weak and beggarly elements of pagan so-called holy days?

It would be equivalent to a Muslim converting to Christianity and yet, continuing to observe Rammadan or make pilgrimages to Mecca. The holy days that the Galatians were returning to are comparable to the false holy days we have today such as Sunday, Easter, Lent, Christmas, Goods Friday, Holy Thursday, Ash Wednesday, all of which were declared holy by the "mother church" in Rome and not by YHWH. YHWH declared in Lev 23 which days were His holy days.

The Sabbaths of the LORD were given as a perpetual covenant and are a sign between Him and His people so that they will know who it is that sanctifies them (Ex.31:13-17). They will continue to be observed after the new heavens and the new earth are created (Is.66:22,23), so why not begin now?

PS> Galatians 4.8-10:

Here Paul is addressing former pagans, NOT those who had any understanding of the perfect law of the LORD (PSalm 19, 119 etc). Read these Psalms, understand them, and then try and call the laws of the LORD 'weak and beggarly elements'!! Paul was addressing those who had formerly kept PAGAN days and observances, who were starting to want to go back to these weak and beggarly elements e.g Saturnalia Dec 25th - Feast of the Unconquered SUN.


 2005/7/20 6:50Profile









 Re:

Lahry,i return by saying again,whats gonna happen when you go home to be with the Lord in heaven and there are NO bibles,
we need to practise trusting the Lord NOW,instead of looking to scriptures for the answer,the answer is within not in a book,this is only a guide for us,God gave us this to start with now he wants us to trust him and have faith in him!
if you were on a desert island what would you do!
with much Love in Jesus
marina xxx ;-)

 2005/7/20 7:13









 Re:

Exodus 16:29
See, the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day the bread for two days; let every man remain in his place; let no man leave his place on the seventh day.

Exodus 20:8
[Earnestly] remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy (withdrawn from common employment and dedicated to God).

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it [set it apart for His purposes].

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 15:20 But we should send word to them in writing to abstain from and avoid anything that has been polluted by being offered to idols, and all sexual impurity, and [eating meat of animals] that have been strangled, and [tasting of] blood.
Acts 15:21 For from ancient generations Moses has had his preachers in every town, for he is read [aloud] every Sabbath in the synagogues.
Acts 15:22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole church, resolved to select men from among their number and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, [both] leading men among the brethren, and sent them.

Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the [city's] gate to the bank of the river where we supposed there was an [accustomed] place of prayer, and we sat down and addressed the women who had assembled there.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hbr 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.


Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.


Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.

 2005/7/20 7:17









 Re:

i read the bible and i believe the bible ,but i know it is God that leads me,i just want you guys to know what i know,its amazing,one day GOD will reveal the truth to you all....we are ONE with the LORD ,nothing more ,nothing less!!!
i know you try to ignore the things i say,but i know the Lord is working everything for GOOD ,the Lord cannot be ignorned so i know this is getting though to alot here...
with loads of love
marina xxx :-D

 2005/7/20 7:28









 Re: Paul said:

1 Cor 6:12 Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power.

Since there is no law against liberty through grace by faith, all things are permitted. But not all things are profitable. If we are not obedient unto God, as a faithful Father, He will chastise His children. If we are not chastised, we are not His.

We are not justified before God because any of us walk perfect before Him. All have sinned. This sin required a penalty be paid. That penalty is death. Jesus paid the penalty on our behalf. Therefore we are no longer under the judgement of law and have passed from judgement into light. We have rested from our works of righteousness for justification and there are no more sacrifices for sin. Jesus paid it all, and it is finished.

But did not this same Paul tell us:


Galatians 5:13 For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.

John 14:15 If you [really] love Me, you will keep (obey) My commands.

John 14:21 The person who has My commands and keeps them is the one who [really] loves Me; and whoever [really] loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I [too] will love him and will show (reveal, manifest) Myself to him. [I will let Myself be clearly seen by him and make Myself real to him.]

John 14:24 Anyone who does not [really] love Me does not observe and obey My teaching. And the teaching which you hear and heed is not Mine, but [comes] from the Father Who sent Me.

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

1 Cor 7:19 For circumcision is nothing and counts for nothing, neither does uncircumcision, but [what counts is] keeping the commandments of God.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who once were [so] far away, through (by, in) the blood of Christ have been brought near.
Eph 2:14 For He is [Himself] our peace (our bond of unity and harmony). He has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one [body], and has broken down (destroyed, abolished) the hostile dividing wall between us,
Eph 2:15 By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.
Eph 2:16 And [He designed] to reconcile to God both [Jew and Gentile, united] in a single body by means of His cross, thereby killing the mutual enmity and bringing the feud to an end.

Titus 1:13 And this account of them is [really] true. Because it is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even severely with them], so that they may be sound in the faith and free from error,
Titus 1:14 [And may show their soundness by] ceasing to give attention to Jewish myths and fables or to rules [laid down] by [mere] men who reject and turn their backs on the Truth.
Titus 1:15 To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted.
Titus 1:16 They profess to know God [to recognize, perceive, and be acquainted with Him], but deny and disown and renounce Him by what they do; they are detestable and loathsome, unbelieving and disobedient and disloyal and rebellious, and [they are] unfit and worthless for good work (deed or enterprise) of any kind.


2 John 1:6 And what this love consists in is this: that we live and walk in accordance with and guided by His commandments (His orders, ordinances, precepts, teaching). This is the commandment, as you have heard from the beginning, that you continue to walk in love [guided by it and following it].


In His Word,

Lahry

 2005/7/20 8:03
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

Hi wildbranch,

Quote:
PS> Galatians 4.8-10:

Here Paul is addressing former pagans, NOT those who had any understanding of the perfect law of the LORD (PSalm 19, 119 etc). Read these Psalms, understand them, and then try and call the laws of the LORD 'weak and beggarly elements'!! Paul was addressing those who had formerly kept PAGAN days and observances, who were starting to want to go back to these weak and beggarly elements e.g Saturnalia Dec 25th - Feast of the Unconquered SUN.



The problem with your logic here is that the context doesn't support your conclusions. The Galations were not being tempted by their former pagan ways according to Paul. Rather, they were being enslaved to the Old Covenant by Judiazers. This is self-evident throughout the context of the book of Galations.


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/7/20 10:40Profile
wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re:

hi there!

It looks like the Galatians were confused altogether - they were being indoctrinated by Judaizers, and in the confusion were even returning to their heathen worship, which also had a system of observances. The Judaizers had come among them teaching physical circumcision and other rituals of the law, which Paul had said are not necessary for salvation.

Notice that Paul’s comment in verse 10 refers back to verse 8: "Howbeit when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods". They could not have been God's holy days, because they never kept them in the first place, before their conversion.

I understand your concern over context in this issue - I feel that the issue is not whether or not to obey the commandments of God, but was it right to demand such obedience (e.g. circumcision) as a pre-requisite for salvation, thereby nullifying the sacrifice of our Saviour?
Also context should be weighed with the evidence of scripture as a whole - the Almighty God gave us instructions on how to live- no one can lightly announce that these are now 'weak and beggarly elements'. The commandments are always upheld in scripture - even in the New Testament by the Messiah himself, and of course the apostles.

Keeping the commandments does not get us into the kingdom, it is rather a sign that we ARE in the kingdom.

Also, will we be 'turning back to the weak and beggarly elements' in the coming Kingdom of Messiah? Zech 14. 16-17 and Isaiah 66. 22-23
also Isaiah 66.17 (concerning swine's flesh etc).

I appreciate Lahry's thoughts on the matter!

Peace



 2005/7/20 14:03Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. Do you think these verses refer to the Words and Judgements that God gave to Israel at Sinai?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/7/20 14:19Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Recall from the Acts of the Apostles what happened when the gentiles came into the church? There was an element in the Jewish church that wanted the Gentiles to keep the commandments given to Moses in order to become Christians. The debate especially centered on circumcision. The Apostolic church (that is, the one at Jerusalem wherein the Apostles themselves fellowshipped) delivered this letter by Paul's hand to the Gentile churches who were being harrassed by these same Jews and told to keep the law:

Quote:
They wrote this letter by them:



[From:] The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
[To:]To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings,

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" --to whom we gave no such commandment-- it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell. (Acts 15:23-29)



Had the "keeping of the Sabbath" been something that needed to be observed, Don't you think it would have found its way into the "here is what you Gentiles must observe" letter?!??

Dan
/\/
\/\


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/7/20 14:32Profile





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