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makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 615
Texas

 The Flood of Self-Absorption

I have been meditating upon the dynamic influence of godly family heritage and how the Lord worked through chosen family lines to preserve the record of names and events for hundreds of years before they were eventually written down.

For example, Noah, the righteous man, perfect among the generation of corruption in the earth, had Enoch for his great grandfather, and Methuselah for his grandfather. Noah likely spent many hours with his grandfather hearing the stories of the preaching of Enoch and how his great grandfather had walked with God for 300 years. What a blessing this must have been in shaping the moral character and faith of Noah.

Similarly, Abram's development as a young man was very likely shaped by stories he heard from Noah, and Shem.
Noah lived until Abram was 58 years old and Shem outlived Abraham. Have you ever wondered how we have such a detailed account of the family line, and the early events of Genesis. They had to have been preserved through oral tradition. Father and grandfathers passing down the details to their children and grandchildren. Hours upon hours of several generations recounting the acts of God and their own family history.

Against this background, a passage from Revelation came into my consideration. The seemingly two unrelated themes came together in my mind. I am still pondering whether this may have been guided revelation. That may be seen over time, but I was impressed to share the thoughts with the brothers and sisters here on the forum for testing and in the hope of edification.

Here is the passage from Revelation Chapter 12:
Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

I have long considered the flood spewing from the serpent's mouth to be a flood of lies sent to sweep away the church, but the timing of my meditations in Genesis and this passage has expanded my thoughts to include another possibility.

It appears that a flood of modern inventions is eroding deep personal family relationships. The internet, cellphones, gaming devices, earbuds, etc. are creating a world of self-absorption. The ability to live in your own little techno world has increased exponentially. The effect of these self-absorbed conveniences is supplanting meaningful interaction that are built upon personal interaction and communication.

For the sake of brevity, I will stop here and simply ask the brothers and sisters on the forum to consider these thoughts and see if you find truth in them.

mak

In case the link between the effect upon the church is not clear, consider the effect upon the church when the foundation of fellowship must involve hearts that are knit together in meaningful brotherly love. The modern family is itself divided by self-absorption, and the compounded effect upon the church is undeniable


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/3/4 7:18Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
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 Re: The Flood of Self-Absorption


HI Mak:

Another good read.

The Revelation text as quoted "15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood."

When your mortal enemy is out of your reach, the way to get to them in some cases is for others to do your evil deeds for you. In this case the "flood of lies" is parroted by those of he same spirit and who's works are after the same motivations.
Satan has no shortage of messangers who are carried about by every wind of doctrine, these may by providence be carried to the saints...if they are not careful will listen
and form opinions based upon the flighty messenger.

John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

It would not be a railing accusation to say that Satan is an example of self-absorption to the extreme. As Jesus said he is the Father of lies, a lie has always been a tool for the protection or promotion of self.

On one level the inference you are making is credible and could well be he basis for an ad-hoc argument.
But the Revelation text is difficult in that the metaphors seem to clash..."fly to the wilderness"..."Carried away by the flood"
A wilderness may burn or dry up which is normative, but a wilderness being overcome by flood is strange. It requires the 'extreme' for the 'woman' to be carried away, and the question arises "where is God's protection for the woman"?

In keeping hermeneutics on track...what are the following verses? Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

So the answer to God's protection is the earth opening its mouth. Satan opened his to destroy, God opened the earth's to save.

In short, I'm not sure the Revelation text is going to fit neatly in your exhortation.
Yet, without question the observation of technological distractions is answered "even the ungodly recognize this is a distraction". Even on the news there is talk of 'phone addiction'.

So while I agree with your observations and how it can negatively effect the saints, God's answer to Satan opening his mouth is God opening the mouth of the earth.

How would this tie into a consistence hermeneutic and yet coincide with your thoughts?


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Marvin

 2020/3/4 16:57Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
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 Re: The Flood of Self-Absorption

Brother Alan,

Indeed these “conveniences” (as they’re so called) serve to add layers of seeming independence, each one further separating us from intimate relationships. In an honest analysis, we will find that the idea of independence (wrought by such devices) is itself an illusion, for we are in fact dependent now on a thing rather than a person, so that our being is required to conform to its use.

So regarding your point, I believe their are many passages of scripture that are indeed alive in that they have quantum value. Which is to say there applications are so numerous so as to not be countable much like a diamond has many facets tho we tend to “fix it” or mount it in a particular way to reveal one aspect but at the expense of all the others. Quite often the word of God has been sequestered in this way by well meaning parties, only to be excavated by more adventurous souls. In this case I believe to the objective reader that your point has merit and is worthy of consideration as an aspect or facet where with the word of God can be again applied to the very modern dilemma of technology and social media being currently driven by forces that seek to exploit a “virtual” reality where technology itself is “god” and is viewed as above all, for all, in all, etc....
It’s an issue that will require us to be obedient to navigate, otherwise with good intentions, we will (in our flesh) attempt to harness it (which it entices us to do) and use it ourselves for our own ends apart from the direction of God so that we can live “independently” of Him but totally dependent on it.

Interestingly I have perceived that there is currently a race, an attempt (by corporate entities) to consolidate themselves under one covering that offers the ability to provide everything needed or wanted to live in this world... so that a person could be born in a hospital owned by Disney, given medications produced by a company owned by Disney, raised on foods produced by Disney, wear clothes, receive education, buy and use technology, be entertained, work for, be insured by, have transportation, etc, etc... all provided under the umbrella of Disney or being dependent on Disney as tho it was itself “god” .... A kingdom if you will, and while there are several “companies” racing to be the first to provide such a potential, there can only be one winner with the rest being subordinate.
This (for me) is very much in line with your observations/revelations regarding the flood of both hardware (devices/tech) and information thar openly exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ or communion with God.

There is also a “contrasting parallel” for this woman in Rev 12 and she is found in Rev 17- where we are given an interpretation of the term “waters” as relating to a flood by an angel of God :)

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Here we find the waters, interpreted as people so perhaps the flood in Rev 12 could be a “flood” of people that follow the word of the serpent- hence “out of his mouth” and pursue/oppose the church with lies attempting to draw her from her place of rest and peace into a false peace/rest/dependence.

It is interesting to note in Rev 12 & 17 we find a woman and a serpent ....
just like in Genesis- tho in 17 this woman is a type of Jezebel who in her lust for power is herself overcome and consumed much like the story with Ezekiel ;)
Amazing patterns indeeed!


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Fletcher

 2020/3/5 6:32Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 615
Texas

 Re:

Thank you brothers for your insights.

My reflections upon the “flood spewing forth from the serpent’s mouth” were not worthy of textual exegesis. I love digging out the gems of the grammar, but I also embrace the possibility of guided insights.

The church has always faced the pressure of conforming to society’s external pressures. The erosion of meaningful relationships threatens the fabric of corporate faith. Individualism is a disease. Floods can move buildings off of their foundation and a part of the church’s foundation is the the perfect bond of brotherly love. That is what I see happening - meaningful family relationships are becoming extinct.

When brothers dwell together in unity - there the Lord commands a blessing. When a generation is raised in the flood of self-absorbed individualism, the foundations of dwelling together are being eroded.
The perilous times of these days begin with “men shall be lovers of themselves”. Satan is providing a flood of means to self-indulge. People can live in their own “little world” - tethered to society’s newest and best conveniences.

Meaningful fellowship based upon personal interaction is becoming more rare. Families are caught up in “providing” their children every activity and opportunity society deems as important. These families are “too busy” for meaningful Christ centered fellowship that involves opening hearts through listening to and sharing with other believers. There is simply not enough time to keep all the kids current in their activities and to lay down your life for your friends.

The Sunday meeting has “become” fellowship. The rest of the week is caught up in the flood of activities.

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/3/5 7:12Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1305
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Ha!
Yes now that is a relatable experience!
And it’s an accurate observation regarding the floods causing erosion to the more meaningful relationships -

So since the advent of these devices is unavoidable I’ve utilized them to draw our family together in meaningful ways :)
Like we’re about to pull up some songs on YouTube to sing before school :)

The thing itself isn’t good or evil,... but how it’s used is either led by the flesh or by the spirit - Rom 8


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Fletcher

 2020/3/5 8:17Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1305
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:Brother Alan

You wrote:/ When brothers dwell together in unity - there the Lord commands a blessing. /

I submit this to that ends :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06xMWNXTeSE

Your words indeed prove true in this case - as it is noteworthy that rarely if ever is the gospel presented to this particular group (fashion industry) and to have it happen at their premiere annual event is remarkable,... which is not to mention those participating are dressed identically and in no way “fashionable” by the historic or current definition of the term where individuality is celebrated as a means of self focus and self expression- yet here we find these ones presenting themselves as a unified body all with the same voice in agreement as witnesses, praising God :)

By the 24 min mark they make use of familiar secular song melodies but have changed the lyrics entirely to praise for what our Lord has done 🙏🏻
An ingenious mechanism to at once draw in the audience with a familiar tune all while supplanting the old with the new 😇


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Fletcher

 2020/3/5 9:24Profile
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Online!
 Re:

Quote:
When brothers dwell together in unity - there the Lord commands a blessing. When a generation is raised in the flood of self-absorbed individualism, the foundations of dwelling together are being eroded.
The perilous times of these days begin with “men shall be lovers of themselves”. Satan is providing a flood of means to self-indulge. People can live in their own “little world” - tethered to society’s newest and best conveniences.



Amen brother this is somthing that we all need to consider. Even our contributions to the forums here on SermonIndex do we have it as the goal for unity of brethren, fellowship and thinking of others before ourselves or is it something we just do for ourselves, even at the expense of others.

2 Timothy 3:1-4 New International Version (NIV)

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—


The antichrist spirit of the end of the age is in promotion of this "individualism" that brother Alan is alluding to.

The spirit of Christ is lovers of others.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2020/3/5 16:00Profile





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