| Women speaking or teaching in church|
I'm not speaking of women becoming head pastors or co-pastors etc. which I am not in favor of. I'm just speaking of when a pastor's wife or just say a women member of the congregation may have something to share. Is the following wrong?
1) A pastor or teacher comes to share in your fellowship and his wife comes along. He introduces her and she takes a few minutes to greet the congregation and may take a few minutes to share some scripture or spiritual nugget the Lord has given her and it goes over well. She is not trying to usurp anything much less the head pastor or her husband. I've been present many times when this has happened in different congregations including the one I am now part of. Some would say even this is wrong but is it?
2) A lady, maybe a pastor's wife maybe not, who teaches other ladies at a church or maybe a lady's retreat. Again, she is not trying to become the pastor of these ladies and can certainly teach and does so and after all is said and done encourages them to go back home and serve their husband and pastor and congregation well and she herself who does this type of teaching is submitted to a pastor and her husband. Is this lady teacher out of line even doing this? Is it wrong for women to "preach" and teach other ladies?
There are some pretty recent controversies in the body of Christ over women preachers. How far does it go? What is your opinion of the two examples above. Does keep silent in the church mean always at all times or can instances like the above fall under the category of allowable?
No need to argue but rather just comment if you are inclined.
| 2019/12/3 16:09||Profile|
| Re: Women speaking or teaching in church|
I believe women to keep silent in the Church, is said in the context of women being a teacher. But if women want to testify or confess her faith, she can always do that. Women are not permitted to teach men. They are permitted to prophesy,
Joel 2:28 - And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
Teaching means to direct the Church on how to live or how to observe a word of God etc. Prophesy is done to encourage the Church (Acts 15:32).
But women are permitted to teach other women and their own Children (Titus 2- 3 to 5).
| 2019/12/4 9:50||Profile|
| Re: |
Women in positions of authority over men in a congregation I see as unbiblical. Women teaching men is forbidden in terms of the woman usurping or granted authority where it is biblically prohibited.
A woman speaking in Church is never forbidden carte-blanc otherwise she would be forbidden to worship, testify, pray, prophecy, or recite any scripture or divine wisdom at all.
There is no mandate for this anywhere in scripture. In fact her teaching other women would also fall under the prohibition "not allow to speak".
So, it's important to recognize context...as John Macarthur did.
But there is a nuance...or contradiction that Johns sermon contained...(at least to me it was confusing) namely, that "Church" is never relegated to a specific building where people meet to hear the pastor.
Bible studies are a gathering of the 'church' so are mens groups, women's groups, teens and children who are born of God. The Church is not "in session' simply because its at the 'right' locale.
Therefore the idea that women can prophecy or pray or teach at some 'lesser locale' looks to me very contradictory...and in fact to me somewhat elitist-carnal thinking.
If women can do it there, they can do it in the 'other' building too.
The idea that women cannot teach men is ludicrous...and goes vastly beyond scripture teaching.
When Mary prayed after the angel spoke to her...maybe we should just cut that part out of the bible since I might get taught something by it? Or where Ruth, Naomi, Debra, Mary Magdalene, or any other women is quoted in scripture since I as a man might be taught something. The mode of teaching whether it is scripture, a testimony or prophesying or as Jackie Pullinger does...actually teach all would be forbidden.
The fact that a woman wrote a book on spiritual things and is read by men would also fall under the ban.
Being silent in the face of godly men who are called to lead the body of Christ is right and true and biblical. Being silent to the body of Christ is a damnable error and a blight upon the Church.
By the way the wonderful women who post here would be banned outright...since I am going to be subjected to their teaching no matter what form it may take.
Though a discussion forum is not a physical meeting of the
church it is a meeting where men come to be taught and to teach, testify, pray or solicit prayer.
The bible itself is a book where teaching, instruction in righteousness and testimony all have the divine stamp of approval upon it...and it is there women have been teaching men since the Spirit of God authored it on the written page.
It is my opinion God is not stupid nor contradictory, where he commands the silence of women, but yet has them speaking into eternity. It is us that get things wrong, to me it is wrong to silence women anywhere other than in the specific context of the Pauline prohibition.
| 2019/12/4 11:56||Profile|
| Re: |
This is a subject where if one does not fall off the wagon on one side they will on the another! SIGH
It seems to me one will do well to take the entire scripture into consideration and note how females were used by God in ministering to others to get their cue from there on how this is to be understood.
1Corinthians 11:1-16 teaches us how a woman is to wear a head covering to demonstrate to others her submission to the Lord and her husband - if she is married. Doing so will give her power on her head when she prays and/or prophecies. v. 14: "Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels."
I had a unique experience a couple weeks ago as we were leaving a restaurant in south Mississippi. A gentleman held the door open for us as we were leaving. As usual, I thanked him for his kindness and then he blessed my husband. Long story short - he thanked me for dressing modestly which included a dress and head covering. He said that radiated purity, virtue, said it is beautiful and encouraged me to continue...he lamented the ugliness of females characterized by their undress that is common among the public. This was a powerful testimony that thrilled and encouraged me.
Wearing a head covering in the public provides one with many opportunities to witness to males and females....and I just love this! It is not something I aggressively pursue but something that just 'happens' as the LORD leads.
As a woman I consider it unbecoming to pursue power for its own sake. All - males and females - are called to serve. What if we all work to see how we can serve others instead of working to rule others? Even males are called to servant leadership.
Ok, I shared a testimony, opinion and did not analyze 1Cor. 11 per se. But do believe it simple enough that its meaning could be clearly understood when the entire Scriptures is taken into context.
Opps! I went on a rabbit trail....hope you enjoyed the scenery!
PS: In case you wonder we are affiliated with the Biblical Mennonite Alliance.
| 2019/12/4 17:25||Profile|
| Re: |
There is another thread in the News & Current Events section on the very same topic. I wrote this in response:
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34,35
Notice "women" is plural. Phoebe was a deaconess (singular). Did she use sign language? Let's not be silly. Good point about Philip's daughters prophesying.
So what do those verses in 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 mean? I believe the meaning has been lost on the modern reader.
Women and men sat apart in the synagogues of Bible times, and so it was in the early church. Paul was saying to the wives, "Don't yell across the room, 'Honey, what verse was he citing? I can't take notes that fast.'" I am being a bit facetious here, but it is essentially the truth.
Even today the Greek and Russian Orthodox church has the men and women stand apart during services (only the old folks are allowed to sit on benches along the perimeter of the sanctuary). And, no, I do not hold to Orthodox church traditions which are extra-Biblical (like praying to Mary, as the Catholics do).
These verses in 1 Cor. 14 are about women in the *congregation.* That is an important distinction that is often overlooked.
No, I am not a proponent of female pastors, but there ARE many fine women of God who put many male "pastors" in much of today's apostate church to shame.
| 2019/12/5 7:23|