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twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
This will probably start a war, but I got this from the Word of God for His Church; The Body of Christ. KJV



Phillip: You won't start a war with me brother. The only war that I am in is to fight the good fight of faith. You are not my enemy at all, though we might discuss things that we disagree about.

There are more apostles, explicitly called so in the New Testament, that were not witnesses of the resurrection of Christ than the original twelve, Matthias, and Paul. Acts 14:14 lists Barnabas as an apostle. "And when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, hear of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out," Barnabas' calling and identity as an apostle is explicitly stated here, and backed up by heavy implication in 1 Cor. 9:5-6. Timothy and Silas were also apostles. The book of 1 Thessalonians was written by Paul, Timothy, and Silas (1:1). In 2:6 Paul says that as apostles of Christ, they (the plural here meaning the authors of the letter) they were not burdensome nor did they seek glory of men.

My point is only to say that we do have record of more than 13 apostles (the original twelve plus Paul) in the New Testament, and not all of them were witnesses of Christ's resurrection. The fact that the original twelve said it was necessary to replace Judas with one that had also witnessed Christ's resurrection does not imply that they were teaching that all apostles after them must also be witnesses of Christ's resurrection. By way of analogy, suppose that the leadership of my local church fellowship prays and feels it necessary to replace one elder who turned away from the Lord and was removed with another who had been part of our body from the founding of the fellowship. That would not imply that we were teaching that in our fellowship it was necessary that all future elders also match this description, and that when no further men with this distinction were left that our fellowship should go without elders.

I don't feel like we can turn what they indeed did do into a teaching about what we should do. We can only teach as doctrine that which is stated as doctrine in scripture. This is not doctrine. This is simply what God directed them to do in this instance. I am not sure who Gaebelein is, but I disagree with his opinion.


_________________
Travis

 2019/12/8 20:48Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1418


 Re:

Hi Twayneb,
Their were more Apostles than the twelve for instance Paul.
The point I was making is that Paul could not be part of the twelve ever as he was not with them from the baptism of John which Peter says is a requirment.
Why?
Because John The Baptist was Elijah in Spirit and All the twelve and even Jesus because he was the sacrifice had to come under Elijah's Ministry in the form of John.
Why?
Jesus says to fullfill all thats right or to fullfill the prophetic pattern in other words.
urs staff

 2019/12/9 10:56Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Staff: Gotcha . :-) Paul's entire ministry was different than that of the twelve. He was sent to the Gentiles. The twelve were sent to the people of Israel scattered abroad.

I did like the exposition of John the Baptist and Elijah who should come and the fact that John came in the spirit of Elijah to fulfill prophecy. I cannot recall that I have ever seen it put together in one place before.


_________________
Travis

 2019/12/9 15:24Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1418


 Re:

Hi Twayneb
lol I agree with your statement about Paul turning from Jew to Gentile evangelism.My point about Paul though was that Paul had all the qualifications to be of the twelve ,he was a Jew of Jews sort to speak but he lacked one qualification that is that he did not come under the ministry of John The Baptist as Elijah so could not be part of the structure.Paul argueably is a greater Apostle than any of the twelve and did greater things than any of the Twelve if to a different audience.So the twelve come first and then Paul and Barnabas etc.
The pattern remains the same then as it will be in the future Elijah,the twelve stones and the sacrifice or in another way "The Spirit of Elijah on the Church" restoring "Apostolic Structure,Teaching and Authority" all lifting up or holding up like and altar to the world "Jesus The Sacrifice ,The Beast of Burden who burdens our sin once and for all" urs staff

 2019/12/10 10:35Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1418


 Re:

Hi,
Let me if I may hammer home my point further:

OT:Elijah at the Jordan
NT:John being Elijah at the Jordan

OT:The Evil Woman wants Elijahs Head
Nt:The Evil Woman wants and Gets Johns Head

OT:Elijah Ministers to Ahab(an Anti Christ figure)
NT:John being Elijah Ministers To Herod (an Anti Christ figure)

OT:Elijah pours Twelve buckets of Water over the Stones(3 x 4)
Nt: John being Elijah pours water over the Twelve Apostles being stones acording to Revelation

OT:Elijah confronts the false Prophets
NT:John confronts the False Teachers and calls them vipers

OT:Elijah appears out of the blue
NT:John appears preaching out of the blue(although we have his childhood account).

OT:Elijah causes the sky to close for 3 1/2 years
NT:John causes the heavens to open for 3 1/2 years(Jesus ministry from his baptism)

OT: Elijah wears a hairy garment
NT:John wears a hariy garment acording to Jewish legend the same one

I go to a pentecostal Church but the problem with Pentecostals is that we don't understand Pentecost!

Urs staff

 2019/12/10 11:06Profile





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